Live data from Hacker News

Iran abolishes morality police

hindustantimes.com

111–120 of 266 posts

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#111

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

AFAICT many student participants in the revolution thought they were fighting to install a relatively liberal democratic system, but when the regime actually fell it was hardline religious groups who were organised enough to fill the power vacuum quickly.

So I'm not sure it was so much the pendulum swinging the other way, as an organised group who were poised to take over when chaos ruled.

But my understanding is limited, so perhaps my view is poorly informed.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#112

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

It is also worth noting the Iranian supreme leaders (there have only been two) are not Ayatollahs. I see these terms falsely conjoined many times in the comments here. Comparatively the Ayatollahs, or specifically the Grand Ayatollahs, are quite moderate compared to the fundamentalists In political power.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah

The most well known of the Ayatollahs is Ali Al Sistani who doesn’t even live in Iran and has no direct affiliation with the Iranian government.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_al-Sistani

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#113
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question; What motivation should a government like Iran's have to listen, if any concession it does give is seen in the West as a great opportunity to show that it is weak, on its last legs etc. to try and overthrow it? I am not naive enough to think this is the case here , but say theoretically at some point someone with power in such a government has a human moment and actually wants to give some concessions…

Why the fixation on the West? This is an entirely Iranian revolution, lead by their own people, with their own, very plain goals.

Because liberalism is largely a Western concept, at least in origin. And the conservative elites of Iran are popularly of the opinion that the riots and dissent are more a result of "Western" ideals polluting their core society than legitimate dissatisfaction among the people against the government.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#114
"Iran abolishes morality police"

.. and now, can we?

I'm a bit tired off all the bull crap that is no longer allowed to be said, as if self-policing oneself and being unable to honestly state one's opinion, is the way to become more authentic. As if repressing oneself and suppressing others could ever lead to a better society.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#115
I believe this is just a way for the Iranian establishment to obtain a respite of momentum, regroup and then come back in full force, incarcerating as many demonstrators as possible. I hope the Iranians double down on making a meaningful change where people guilty of violence against protestors get punished and actually change the government a bit. It’s possible a complete overthrow is nearly impossible without a lot more casualties but this ruling seems like a false victory to me.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#116
post #111

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

AFAICT many student participants in the revolution thought they were fighting to install a relatively liberal democratic system, but when the regime actually fell it was hardline religious groups who were organised enough to fill the power vacuum quickly. So I'm not sure it was so much the pendulum swinging the other way, as an organised group who were poised to take over when chaos ruled. But my understanding is lim…

You may be right about that… maybe less a pendulum but definitely cause and effect.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#117

It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%…

> It’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator

This simply wasn't the case. I discuss this in a post below, but by the time Mossadegh was removed he had used a fraudulent plebiscite (claimed a 99.94% victory) to dissolve the parliament he had been feuding with and rule entirely by fiat. The Shah also wasn't installed by the U.S., he had been in power since Russia and the U.K. removed his father during WWII.

Here's an interesting letter written by the naval attache to Iran about the internal situation[1], written three months before the Shah's removal. It highlights the complexity of the situation - Mossadegh trying to use the Shah's political powers against parliament, the British interested in curtailing the power of the Shah in favor of the office of the prime minister with the hope that a pro-British prime minister will arise, U.S. opposition to this because they feel the Shah is the only thing thing holding the country together politically. And excerpt:

> Ardeshir is aware that Mossadegh is planning to try to force the Shah to sign a Firman to close the Majlis and is fearful that by some means he might come close to success in this. However, in the meantime, intense campaigning revealing Mossadegh’s plan is now being planned and will be evident in a day or two in the newspapers and in the Majlis. If Mossadegh ever attempts to close the Majlis without a Firman from the Shah, Ardeshir feels that this would be Mossadegh’s greatest mistake and with the present strength of the opposition would be almost, literally, fatal to him.

> He also mentioned that in the voting for “Speaker” of the Majlis the opposition papers are encouraging the present internal quarrelling within the National Front. At present a bitter struggle is being carried on between Shayegan, Moazami and Razavi to be the National Front candidate for Speaker; this could weaken the National Front considerably.

> Ardeshir stated that it is evident to most Iranian observers that the British aim in Iran is as follows: To officially agree that Mossadegh should go, but not to actively, covertly, work to this end, feeling that the strength of the opposition itself will work this out and that there remains a possibility that by a weak change in government the British might be able to control the next government. The number one aim of the British, however, is to weaken the Shah’s powers to intervene in time of crises to the point that at some time in the future when a pro-British Prime Minister appears the most can be made of it. He feels that in spite of the weak character of the Shah such a curtailment of powers would be disastrous to the country and would place the country at the mercy of whatever adventurers might temporarily be in position of political power, and that the country is not yet ready for this. In addition, the only symbol which holds the diverse elements of Iran together is the Shah himself.

The actual history of the period is fascinating. It's a shame that it keeps getting reduced to a sound bit that has little connection to reality.

[1] https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1951-54Ira...

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you work for chatGPT or something? I've seen a lot of really spammy people use phrasing similar to the beginning of your post lately. I'm not flagging you or downvoting you, but you made me raise my eyebrows, I can't tell if posts like these are authentic interaction. (I don't mind if someone's a sincere fan of a service, there's places I've plugged, for lack of better phrasing, if I've found value from them, but…

I just played with it around and wanted to compare what an article about this event would look like. But maybe it was a bad idea to post it, if we want to stay on topic.

No it's fine, I just was being hypervigilant about spam, I apologize.

Re: Iran abolishes morality police

#120

Thanks for this, I saw this on a domain I didn't recognize much earlier. In general is the Hindustan times pretty trustworthy? I mostly know about SE Asia, China and North Korean news sources outside the typical English language EU stuff, but sometimes I see things like this and am not sure if I should trust them and wait a bit and my usual source for anything adjacent to the Middle East or India (Al Jazeera) often l…

This thread provides some context: https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1599344163769978880

"Iran abolishes morality police" is a bad way to describe what really happened it seems:

>So amazing how many news outlets are going with the "Iran abolishes morality police" line based on a convoluted quote from one official. In reality morality police have been inactive since protests started, but there is no substantive news on their future.

>Update: Iran state television is reporting that the morality police has definitely NOT been removed.

Post reply on HN