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Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

wsj.com

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Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#101

Post by ekianjo »

nixcraft wrote: post #10

Three hundred thousand workers work at a factory in China to make iPhones? I didn't realise how massive the production line is, considering they have a 23% market share, and the rest is all Android lead by Samsung. I am always surprised that Apple (or other Western tech giants) never considered building backup factories. Did they never think about geopolitics or natural disasters and panamics? Apart from that iPhone…

Building backup factories is prohibitive in terms of costs. We dont even have much of that for essential products like pharmaceuticals.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#102

Post by bigDinosaur »

cpursley wrote: post #65
amelius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you agree with all the points, then civilized seems apt.

You can be "civilized" and an autocracy. Certain aspects of modern China makes the West look like a backwater. Hell, even Russia has less people in prison than the US and free heath care. Also, that phrase just reeks of imperialism, racism and superiority - just a modern version of "savages who need our one true religion". OPs argument is about democracy, not level of development and culture. For clarity: I'm anti-au…

What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'? I literally cannot think of a single thing. That doesn't mean China has no positive aspects. The West is also not monolithic.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#103

Post by iglio »

mschuster91 wrote: post #57
sgu999 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in China. Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics. Not sure why the divide with the "ignorant west" is necessary in your argument. Of course people at Apple understand the risk, and it is taken into account to generate as much profit as possible.

> Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics. You can rightfully complain about labor practices in other Asian countries, but forced labor from concentration camps is a uniquely Chinese atrocity.

Just for completeness, the US has its own flavor of issues here in its prison system.

Just 23¢ to $1.15 is the typical hourly pay [1], and work is not always voluntary and up to the same employee protection/safety standards as true employment [2].

Labour sourced from the incarcerated creates problematic incentives in law enforcement.

[1] https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/unicor_about.js...

[2] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/2022...

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#104

Post by peoplefromibiza »

amelius wrote: post #60
cpursley wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically agree with you on all points. But can we please drop this "civilized world" term? I suggest "democratic world".

If you agree with all the points, then civilized seems apt.

then USA should not be considerd part of the civilized World.

A country where it is acceptable to have workers forced to pee in bottles or bullied by their new CEO (who's also a pathological liar)

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#105

Post by sornaensis »

rrgok wrote: post #97

Someone said something along the line of "This alone is going to be a huge driver of India's economy going forward...". I honestly feel the opposite. This will make the country more poorer. Hey, I don't know anything about economics. But if mass production (in tech) happens always in those countries and the economy moves forward, then why, on average, those people's lifestyle is not comparable to the poorest man in t…

China has raised a billion people into a comfortable standard of living by doing exactly this.

Taiwan, South Korea, and Vietnam all have developed at substantial rates via this method as well.

Maybe you're thinking of countries which are based around resource extraction? Because building a ton of factories and putting people to work making gadgets for other countries is pretty well proven.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#106

Post by peoplefromibiza »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #102
cpursley wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be "civilized" and an autocracy. Certain aspects of modern China makes the West look like a backwater. Hell, even Russia has less people in prison than the US and free heath care. Also, that phrase just reeks of imperialism, racism and superiority - just a modern version of "savages who need our one true religion". OPs argument is about democracy, not level of development and culture. For clarity: I'm anti-au…

What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'? I literally cannot think of a single thing. That doesn't mean China has no positive aspects. The West is also not monolithic.

> What aspect of China makes the West look like a 'backwater'?

Compare China homicide rates to USA.

Or China incarceration rate to USA incarceration rate.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#107

Post by rwalle »

throwawaaay129 wrote: post #50
fyresala wrote: post #26

iPhone made in China is no better than the cotton from Xinjiang. Earlier the reports are workers in the China iPhone factory had a protest and brutal conflict with the local police. Reasons varied from unbearable working condition, the zero-covid policy, and being deceived about the compensation. After the local police oppressed the campaign, the government assigned headcounts to local villages, demanding them to fil…

I don't know where people get the idea people are semi-enslaved in factories.. Having lived in China, in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict. Somewhere between US and Europe. It's not really easy to fire people and people regularly sue their employers and win. The legal system is generally very heavily biased towards the little guy I just feel really bad for these people. They pr…

Born and raised in China, I stopped reading this after the first paragraph.

Laws are meaningless if they are never enforced or are simply ignored. Which happens all the time in China.

It is not easy to fire people. Sure, in normal situations. But when appropriate, government is going to ignore all these and do whatever necessary, and maybe even threaten to put you or your family in jail. Want to go to court? Good luck, the judges are going to stand with the government.

Another example: the constitution says that Chinese people have the freedom to speak, publish and demonstrate etc. Tell me how that has worked out.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#108

Post by flandish »

radicalbyte wrote: post #78
cpursley wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically agree with you on all points. But can we please drop this "civilized world" term? I suggest "democratic world".

Yeah considering that China for about 2000 years was the leading civilisation I'm not sure why people use that term.

Because it’s a propaganda term meant to imply China is uncivilized without directly saying it. Like calling America a democracy. We know it’s not but propaganda keeps that image “out there.”

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#109

Post by em500 »

nixcraft wrote: post #10

Three hundred thousand workers work at a factory in China to make iPhones? I didn't realise how massive the production line is, considering they have a 23% market share, and the rest is all Android lead by Samsung. I am always surprised that Apple (or other Western tech giants) never considered building backup factories. Did they never think about geopolitics or natural disasters and panamics? Apart from that iPhone…

Apple is selling 250-300m iPhones per year. With seasonal variation, there are months where they need to churn out over a million iPHones every day. Such scales are hard for any human to internalize.

Re: Apple to move 40-45% iPhone production to India

#110

Post by itsoktocry »

pera wrote: post #75
throwawaaay129 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where people get the idea people are semi-enslaved in factories.. Having lived in China, in my second hand experience Chinese worker protection laws are quite strict. Somewhere between US and Europe. It's not really easy to fire people and people regularly sue their employers and win. The legal system is generally very heavily biased towards the little guy I just feel really bad for these people. They pr…

Your experience seems very different from what several international human rights organisations have been reporting for the past two decades. I'd like to invite everyone here to follow for instance CLW: https://chinalaborwatch.org/

>I'd like to invite everyone here to follow for instance CLW

Unfortunately, I think we're well past the days where you can simply say, "The WHO says..." or "the CDC says..." or " says..." and expect anyone to believe it's some source of truth.

As we speak, we're literally in the middle of multiple supposedly trustworthy institutions being exposed for bending the truth or creating a narrative for political reasons.

There's a cold war with China in progress. In my country we're dealing with issues related to political influence by the Chinese. Even so, I'm trying to be careful that what I read isn't merely anti-Chinese propaganda, because I don't pretend we're not guilty of that ourselves.

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