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South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

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Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#281

Post by solardev »

dirtyid wrote: post #280
NLPlatypus wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize the CCP forces companies to accept CCP members into their board and leadership, right? It’s even affecting foreign companies operating in China. It’s not “sinophobia”, it’s just facts. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-21/hsbc-form...

> CCP forces companies to accept CCP members into their board and leadership Except they don't? 1993 company law stipulates party committees are formed in any org with 3 or more CCP members... Trivial conditions to meet when party membership is like 1/8 of workforce and committees have been limited to dumb shit like organizing staff picnics not influence operations. Many chinese high up enough in company leadership/b…

Do you work for the CCP? This reads like damage control PR.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#282

Post by onetimeusename »

scarface74 wrote: post #226
onetimeusename wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why they can't just hire more citizens; can't most people agree that would be good? If you don't want the money, fine, but it just seems unreasonable that we force Americans to compete against people who are the top 0.001% of some other country with a billion people. Who benefits from that? The tech company does, that one person who may or may not even like Americans does. That person's former country cou…

So do you think they should hire less skilled people? Isn’t that the much hated “affirmative action” instead of hiring based on merit? As an American citizen you wouldn’t want to be considered a “diversity hire” would you?

Do Japanese people who work at an all Japanese company feel they were diversity hires because their company did not hire Indians, Americans, and Chinese people who had nicer credentials?

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#283

Post by okasaki »

alexschnapp wrote: post #259
okasaki wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP has 97 million members and broad public support (in b4 "the Chinese don't know what's good for them") There are probably ways to "hate the CCP" without hating Chinese people, but it's difficult to see how.

"Broad public support" There is absolutely no basis to this claim unless there's an alternative party to compare to

So, they don't know what's good for them?

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#284

Post by onetimeusename »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #244
onetimeusename wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am glad you brought this up. I think there are trade offs. There is a benefit to Americans that they accept the best globally. On the other hand, professors and elite STEM grads do form a high status caste who occupy the most powerful government and corporate positions and professorships that make decisions that affect Americans. Some of my favorite people I know are foreign stem grads. But I have also met som…

> Professors with dual citizenship can leave at any moment and during a war that could devastate us. Look at the list of people who developed the atom and hydrogen bombs for the United States. They were overwhelmingly foreign-born. Imagine you moved to another country at age 22, studied there, got married there, raised kids there, and built your career there over the course of 20-30 years. You would not simply "leave…

Maybe, but as far as I know, none were Soviet citizens who came on work visas. Even if it were possible to emigrate from there, I don't know that they would have been allowed to be professors or grad students either. This was during the Cold War. In some ways we are kind of in a cold war with China right now where a huge % of high skilled workers come. We're practically in a hot war with Russia and I don't need to repeat what has been said about them. I am not trying to single any country out but I don't think we can say we have no enemies abroad right now. Surely this is something to think about before creating a caste of foreign high skilled workers and academics?

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#285

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #240
chrischen wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to single out the government from the people is a convenient way to justify an anti-China stance. Have you even considered the fact that even if the majority of Chinese may not like their own government, that doesn't mean they support yours?

At the end of the day calling everything anti China and racist is just a way of deflecting and trying to justify what the government is doing. No one is here defending their own government. Most people in most countries will freely admit when their governments do stuff that’s wrong. But only CCP shills are here defending the CCP and trying to justify genocide, cross border arrests, mass censorship, etc etc. For the r…

It's funny how in order to criticize another government we must first criticize our own. It should go without saying that nobody fully supports everything their government does. It's obvious and doesn't really need to be stated.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#286

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mlindner wrote: post #225
_tik_ wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with both of your points. This reminds me while visiting the holocaust museum. The guide explained similar conspiracy popular believe that Jews have a great secret plan to poison European society. I assumed this kind of thinking is commons in Xenophobic situations either subconsciously or un subconsciously.

People criticize Israel all the time. Criticizing the state (Israel) is unrelated to criticizing the people (Jewish). Similiarly for China, criticizing the state is not the same as criticizing the Chinese. And adding on, there's multiple types of Chinese people. There's Chinese in America, Chinese in Taiwan and Chinese in many other countries. No one fears "the Chinese" that's just CCP government brainwashing to try…

There is a difference between people who criticize Israel based on real, factual issues (e.g., the occupation of the West Bank), and people who spin conspiracy theories about vast Israeli conspiracies to poison the minds of Americans. The former criticisms are legitimate. The latter criticisms are almost certainly antisemitism.

This TikTok conspiracy theory (it's an operation designed by the Chinese government to dumb down American youth) is exactly like the sorts of antisemitic conspiracy theories one hears about Israel. It is not like the legitimate criticisms of Israel's actions in the West Bank.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#287

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

onetimeusename wrote: post #284
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Professors with dual citizenship can leave at any moment and during a war that could devastate us. Look at the list of people who developed the atom and hydrogen bombs for the United States. They were overwhelmingly foreign-born. Imagine you moved to another country at age 22, studied there, got married there, raised kids there, and built your career there over the course of 20-30 years. You would not simply "leave…

Maybe, but as far as I know, none were Soviet citizens who came on work visas. Even if it were possible to emigrate from there, I don't know that they would have been allowed to be professors or grad students either. This was during the Cold War. In some ways we are kind of in a cold war with China right now where a huge % of high skilled workers come. We're practically in a hot war with Russia and I don't need to re…

> none were Soviet citizens who came on work visas

Many of them were from countries that were at war with the United States, like Germany and Italy.

George Gamow, one of the most important American physicists ever, was born in Russia, educated in the USSR and began his career there, before defecting to the US. He didn't work on the Manhattan Project, but he did consult on other military projects during WWII. There are lots of other examples of Soviet-American physicists, including one of the inventors of quark theory (George Zweig) and the one of the people who formulated perhaps the most famous paradox in quantum mechanics (Boris Podolsky).

> Surely this is something to think about before creating a caste of foreign high skilled workers and academics?

Casting suspicion on students and scientists in the United States because they come from "enemy" countries is not a healthy thing for society to do. I also object to your use of the word "caste." Castes are hereditary groups with defined roles in society. What we're talking about here are simply smart people who did well in school, and managed to get into top universities.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#288

Post by scarface74 »

onetimeusename wrote: post #282
scarface74 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think they should hire less skilled people? Isn’t that the much hated “affirmative action” instead of hiring based on merit? As an American citizen you wouldn’t want to be considered a “diversity hire” would you?

Do Japanese people who work at an all Japanese company feel they were diversity hires because their company did not hire Indians, Americans, and Chinese people who had nicer credentials?

Are you saying you are unable to compete in an open market? All of the Big Tech companies make a lot if their money internationally. Why shouldn’t they recruit worldwide?

And holding up China and Japan as exemplars of economic development is not the winning argument you think it is…

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#289

Post by onetimeusename »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #287
onetimeusename wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but as far as I know, none were Soviet citizens who came on work visas. Even if it were possible to emigrate from there, I don't know that they would have been allowed to be professors or grad students either. This was during the Cold War. In some ways we are kind of in a cold war with China right now where a huge % of high skilled workers come. We're practically in a hot war with Russia and I don't need to re…

> none were Soviet citizens who came on work visas Many of them were from countries that were at war with the United States, like Germany and Italy. George Gamow, one of the most important American physicists ever, was born in Russia, educated in the USSR and began his career there, before defecting to the US. He didn't work on the Manhattan Project, but he did consult on other military projects during WWII. There ar…

Although a defector is not a temporary student or H1-B, yes it is complicated but you are saying there is no cause for concern even though clearly Soviet citizens would not have been allowed in such high numbers into important roles and I suspect people would rightly question the numbers if nearly half of all STEM graduate students were Russian right now.

I call it a caste deliberately for those reasons. It is hereditary I believe whether through socioeconomic status or genetics or culture or legacy status. It's already becoming apparent. There may or may not be social consequences. I fear there will be.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#290

Post by npteljes »

pasquinelli wrote: post #18
hammock wrote: post #5

The bigger deal (bigger than the tracking that people usually focus on) might be how the algorithm is specifically tuned to reward dumb content in the US, compared to rewarding STEM and other educational content in China. One minute video that explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hus9fWz0RRk Further reading: https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

sounds like china has the right idea. it takes me (in america) constantly weeding the garden of my youtube (also american) to minimize the dumb shit it shows me. so does america want stupid americans? is that not the biggest deal?

>so does america want stupid americans

I'd say it depends on the politicians themselves. I'd say populists don't mind the people's stupidity and misery at all, because they turn that into an advantage for themselves, by very publicly providing, or even just promising, a short term relief for them. In this way, systemic issues like the welfare trap or wage slavery give them opportunity to inflate their popularity by organizing handouts, or by redirecting the people's misery to outgroups, such as non-heterosexuals, people of color, immigrants or other marginalized groups like people with addictions.

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