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Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

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Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#261

Post by [deleted] »

cma wrote: post #237
nightski wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't as stupid as HN wants to think they are. Twitter will be judged based on how it actually evolves, not Musk's brand. Time will tell. Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though. If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn. Then there would be topics of innocent things like landscapes t…

> Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though. If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn. Settings | Privacy and Safety | Display media that may contain sensitive content Did you enable that maybe?

[deleted]

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#262

Post by Yoric »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #219
krapp wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn. No, you wouldn't. Either you don't know what hardcore porn actually is, or you're exaggerating.

I've also had this happen to me. It doesn't happen every time, but I've had Twitter show me graphic penetration on topics that are just, like, a city name. (I've never seen it on the homepage or in someone's replies, only topics from the trending bar.)

Apparently, there was a spam/reader DoS attack during the last few days associating porn to Chinese cities, in an effort by PRC's government to disorganize demonstrations against the government and the Zero Covid policy.

Could be related?

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#263

Post by [deleted] »

gjulianm wrote: post #178
memish wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Hackers are naturally anti-authoritarian. Anyone who can give you orders can stop you from solving whatever problem you're being fascinated by -- and, given the way authoritarian minds work, will generally find some appallingly stupid reason to do so. So the authoritarian attitude has to be fought wherever you find it, lest it smother you and other hackers. Authoritarians thrive on censorship and secrecy. An…

> Authoritarians thrive on censorship and secrecy. And authoritarians also thrive on chaos and propaganda. The recent rise in authoritarianism hasn't been related to censorship and secrecy as much as chaos, misdirection, conspiracy theories and forced polarization.

[deleted]

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#264

Post by danans »

enumjorge wrote: post #118
tj-teej wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only goes against his "free speech thing" if his "free speech thing" was actually a coherent ideology. Instead his "free speech absolutism" is a brand, it's there to signal what kind of person he is, it's not a set of principles and therefore cannot stand up to scrutiny.

> is a brand I wish more people would understand this. For people like Musk, his personal brand is extremely important and they spend a lot of effort portraying and selling a specific image. It is an important part of his success as a businessman. FTX’s Sam Bankman-Fried is another example. His disheveled, messy geek look was calculated, and in an interview after FTX’s collapse he basically admitted that some of his…

> FTX’s Sam Bankman-Fried is another example. His disheveled, messy geek look was calculated, and in an interview after FTX’s collapse he basically admitted that some of his opinions and philosophies that he espoused before were BS to push a specific narrative.

> Musk has repeated “free speech” enough times that it’s become part of his brand. And people will associate that with him regardless of what he actually does.

The models here are the guru/savior/grifter, which encompasses and goes beyond just "brand".

Why don't the followers see the contradictions in what the guru says and does? Some of them are truly deluded, but a whole lot of them understand it just fine and just want to see if they can get in on the action.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#265

Post by shagmin »

stcroixx wrote: post #179
themitigating wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to pre musk ban. The exact tweet was “I’m a bit sleepy tonight but when I wake up I’m going death con 3 On JEWISH PEOPLE,” Someone was proposing incitement to violence has a threahold etc. This to me is clearly incitement to violence. Some have claimed he didn't know what "death con" (defcon) means to which I say what could he have possibly meant. It's on Jewish People.

Defcon is a defense term indicating a level of preparedness. I don't see how it could possibly be argued that preparation and an incitement to violence are the same thing. Words matter even if he doesn't know what they mean. Would be very interesting to see that attempted. Personally, I think he probably meant something else that very likely could have been closer to an incitement of violence, but he doesn't have the…

It just plain reads as hostile to me, and hostile entities often claim they are just defending themselves (justified or not), whether people or countries. But I don't think anyone has mentioned convicting him of anything unless you're talking about a court of public opinion or something.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#266

Post by threeseed »

nightski wrote: post #151
enumjorge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is a brand I wish more people would understand this. For people like Musk, his personal brand is extremely important and they spend a lot of effort portraying and selling a specific image. It is an important part of his success as a businessman. FTX’s Sam Bankman-Fried is another example. His disheveled, messy geek look was calculated, and in an interview after FTX’s collapse he basically admitted that some of his…

People aren't as stupid as HN wants to think they are. Twitter will be judged based on how it actually evolves, not Musk's brand. Time will tell. Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though. If I clicked on even a single trending topic about a game or news item I'd often be presented with unfiltered hardcore porn. Then there would be topics of innocent things like landscapes t…

> Let's not pretend the site wasn't an absolute disaster before the acquisition though

But it was a managed absolute disaster that was trying to be better.

And so regulators such as EU, FTC were okay to let it continue to operate.

That is clearly changing since Musk took over.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#267

Post by mikeyouse »

nemo44x wrote: post #193
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

He was breaking the law in countries Twitter is in. Musk explicitly said you can’t break the law.

As others have pointed out, blasphemy is illegal in many countries that Twitter operates in. Are you advocating that Americans who blaspheme should be banned from Twitter because it's illegal in Saudi Arabia? Because otherwise this weird apology for Musk's hypocritical actions doesn't make any sense.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#268

Post by threeseed »

krapp wrote: post #258
Dig1t wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well his free speech thing was also stated alongside the fact that he wanted to authenticate everybody. Free speech can work if real identities and reputations are clearly visible. Anonymity combined with free speech is what creates the places most normal people don't want to be.

This isn't true. We've tried real-world identities on the internet numerous times, most broadly when Google merged G+ and Youtube, but also a lot of USENET identifiers and signatures included a person's real name, or easily identifiable version of it. It accomplishes absolutely nothing - people are perfectly willing to put their real name and reputation behind their harrassing and toxic behavior. It does, however, ma…

This is already happening on Twitter today.

Just like people are happy to have signs on the gardens or stickers on their truck they are more than willing to tell people their views online. Especially because they don't work for some multi-national that cares what their political views are. And so there are no consequences for whatever they say or do.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#269

Post by hackerlight »

jhedwards wrote: post #206
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

Just for reference I believe that the "more speech" idea originated with Louis Brandeis, who was a brilliant thinker and one of the important liberal Supreme Court justices of the 20th century. The actual quote is: "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."[0] Louis Brandeis…

Did he say why he believes this is the best remedy, and is his position backed up by any evidence from psychology, memetics, etc? The evidence I'm aware of leads me to the opposite conclusion.

Also he wrote this before social media. He wrote that before fascism swept in on the back of free speech and public persuasion in the 1930s. We're in a new paradigm now and worldviews need to be updated to fit new information and new evidence than what was available during his time.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#270

Post by Yoric »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #213
atchoo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh don't get me wrong, they are both unacceptable and I haven't and don't want to see the symbol tweet. I personally find words more impactful, revealing of intent and suggesting action than symbols. I say arguable because I don't which was worse, or if it's a worthy discussion, but the deathcon tweet is enough for me to see an unwell/dangerous person that needs a ban just to save them from themselves let alone anyon…

Defcon levels have to do with defense not attack.

Well, it's still mobilizing the army. Plus, "death con".
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