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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#501

Post by vineyardmike »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #93
holoduke wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are lightyears behind. 20 years if not more. These chip machines is work of many decates of iterative work. You cannot simply step in and produce similar tech.

If they are "lightyears behind", and everyone on HN thinks that China will invade Taiwan in order to get chips, then why the ** is the US trying to cripple China's domestic semiconductor industry?!? Isn't this a self-fulfulling prophecy? If HNers are so concerned about Taiwan's peace and independence then why aren't HNers protesting more against the US' effort to cripple China's semiconductor industry so that China h…

> and everyone on HN thinks that China will invade Taiwan in order to get chips

Most everyone things China will invade Taiwan because they want to own the land. It was once part of "china" but now is a (politically unrecognized) separate nation.

Everyone thinks that the only reason not to invade is that warfare will surely destroy all semiconductor manufacturing on the island.

The US wants to cripple the Chinese semiconductor industry to ensure that Taiwan can't be invaded without severely hurting the Chinese economy.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#502

Post by SkyMarshal »

filoleg wrote: post #313
SkyMarshal wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By moving some of that capability offshore, that incentive is gone. China's main motivation isn't about controlling TSMC, that's just a useful side-objective if it comes to pass. Their main motivations are: 1) break the first island chain barrier and gain a naval base with unhindered access to the Pacific, and 2) shut down a high-functioning Chinese democracy that is a constant reminder to the people of mainland Ch…

Perhaps it isn't about controlling TSMC, but control of TSMC would be a very strong leverage over the west. Not that it is the only or even the most powerful leverage China has over the west, but it is still a massive one, and it has quite a lot of second-order effects.

> but control of TSMC would be a very strong leverage over the west.

They'll never control TSMC by invading Taiwan. TSMC will sabotage their equipment if it looks like a CCP invasion is about to succeed. CCP knows that, it's not their main reason for wanting Taiwan.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#503

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

coredog64 wrote: post #384
filoleg wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it isn't about controlling TSMC, but control of TSMC would be a very strong leverage over the west. Not that it is the only or even the most powerful leverage China has over the west, but it is still a massive one, and it has quite a lot of second-order effects.

China wants to focus more of their economy on internal demand. Something like TSMC, which would allow them to fab CPUs and own more of the value chain in things like laptops and cellphones would help them reach that goal.

Hardly, TSMC is dependent on outside suppliers in Europe and the USA which would not supply China.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#504

Post by hardware2win »

deltaseventhree wrote: post #353
coredog64 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US has more expensive workers who are overall worse at the job and don't have the expertise to be compete with the people in Taiwan. GMAFB. Intel has several of their fabs in the Phoenix metro area, they’re another 3-5 major players in the area, and there’s a talent pipeline from the local University into these companies. Intel’s problems aren’t an inability to fab, it’s an inability to translate their design l…

It's universally well known that Asian workers work harder and can be paid less. It's not just about intels capabilities. It's about economic wage standards. The cost is just too high in the US. That being said tsmc workers in Taiwan are by far more capable then Intel this is proven by the 3nm process of which Intel is completely incapable of achieving.

Arent people really small % of semico investments?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#505

Post by dontbenebby »

menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

>Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all.

Is it possible part of why China wants control of China is to control these factories, so if they move production to America paired with demanding existing diplomatic agreements be honored, China will be less obsessed with seizing, for lack of better phrasing, a unique resource?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#506

Post by _kbh_ »

credit_guy wrote: post #480
menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

> The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. That's a very cynical view. What exactly does Ukraine produce that's so important for the West?

https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-ukraine-halts-h...

> WASHINGTON, March 11 (Reuters) - Ukraine's two leading suppliers of neon, which produce about half the world's supply of the key ingredient for making chips, have halted their operations as Moscow has sharpened its attack on the country, threatening to raise prices and aggravate the semiconductor shortage.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#507

Post by HDThoreaun »

philliphaydon wrote: post #450
HDThoreaun wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of Chinese and Taiwanese identify as Han. China is effectively an ethnostate that is cleansing minorities.

Most people in Taiwan don’t identify as Han.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

95% Han

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#508

Post by philliphaydon »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #507
philliphaydon wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in Taiwan don’t identify as Han.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan 95% Han

People in Taiwan don't walk down the street saying "im han im han im han"... They don't call themselves 'han chinese', they don't call themselves 'chinese'.

If you read what I wrote.

> Most people in Taiwan don’t identify as Han.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#509

Post by ekianjo »

mdp2021 wrote: post #191
ekianjo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who says there is only one way to invade Taiwan? a maritime blockade would be super effective to suffocate Taiwan in a matter of months and destroy their economy.

> a maritime blockade would be super effective to to create a total war involving the countries dependent on products from Taiwan.

The US does not the balls anymore to do anything against China, unfortunately. (Nor the financial interests to do so, with most of the US debt being owned by China)

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#510

Post by ekianjo »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #131
ekianjo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to pay more taxes and become uncompetitive if you can avoid it?

I get that many individuals and companies see taxes as wasted money or theft, but taxes pay to fund the education of the workforce that will work for said corporations and fund the infrastructure used by said corporations to build and transport their goods, including stuff like courts which companies can use do protect their IP or military force projection to protect their assets and investments abroad. Without the s…

> see taxes as wasted money or theft,

You are mixing chicken and eggs here. We had education and skilled people before huge governments stealing massive amounts of taxes from people existed. The disposable income from the population gave rise to bureaucrats who love to tax everything under and pretend that they world cannot run without them. That's pure twisted logic.

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