Live data from Hacker News

BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

techcrunch.com

71–80 of 333 posts

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#71
post #40

Not sure what to make of this, but Austen, who is normally a prolific tweeter, hasn't tweeted about this yet [0]. I have gotten used to CEOs tweeting apologetic stuff when this happens. Perhaps this is norm should be bucked? I don't know. I just note that Austen is going against the grain. EDIT: missed this: "In a now-deleted tweet posted earlier today, Allred quoted a prior statement of gratitude for employees pushi…

The "attacked by all sides" comment is quite bizarre. Every pain the company experienced was self-inflicted. They lied about how many students get jobs, which damaged their reputation and is a source of active lawsuits. They dodged California regulators and then lied to students about it. This invalidated every ISA in California before 2020. They launched an unpaid intern program, which created a backlash in the tech…

Also, lame they charge companies to attend Bloomtech career fairs: https://www.bloomtech.com/hire-from-bloomtech

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#72
post #40

Not sure what to make of this, but Austen, who is normally a prolific tweeter, hasn't tweeted about this yet [0]. I have gotten used to CEOs tweeting apologetic stuff when this happens. Perhaps this is norm should be bucked? I don't know. I just note that Austen is going against the grain. EDIT: missed this: "In a now-deleted tweet posted earlier today, Allred quoted a prior statement of gratitude for employees pushi…

The "attacked by all sides" comment is quite bizarre. Every pain the company experienced was self-inflicted. They lied about how many students get jobs, which damaged their reputation and is a source of active lawsuits. They dodged California regulators and then lied to students about it. This invalidated every ISA in California before 2020. They launched an unpaid intern program, which created a backlash in the tech…

* They lied about how many students get jobs, which damaged their reputation and is the source of active lawsuits

No we did not.

We've been over this again and again, and I know you understand that this isn't true. The misconception comes form comparing two different measures: one that is (hired students making more than $50k/enrolled students), which we share with investors because that indicates how much we get paid vs. how much we spend. The other is (hired students/graduated students), which we share with prospective students because that's what they want to understand and what every school shares.

Those were both called "placement" in different contexts to different people, but the numbers that we report externally are always hired students/graduated students (and even that isn't simple, as there are many different definitions of "hired," and different cohorts of students who are job searching or not, and various time lags around when we learn a student is hired or not), but this is not unique to us as a school. (Though an ISA incentivizing people to _not_ tell us when they are hired until tax returns are do perhaps is a little bit unique to us.)

* They dodged California regulators then lied to students about it. This invalidated every ISA in California before 2020.

Neither of those things are true. Our counsel told us we didn't need to register with the BPPE because we didn't operate physical classrooms (this was a somewhat novel concept in 2017). They reasoned that if the BPPE were going to claim that online schools would need to register in every state there was a student, that the claim would be if you have a single student who attends online classes from a state you have to register as a school in that state. Correspondingly, teaching anything on the Internet would require you to register separately and abide by varying regulations with every state educational body in the United States. The BPPE said they were going to regulate online schools, and sent us a letter with a threat to fine us. We immediately submitted our registration, and the registration approval process took just over a year, and the BPPE reduced the fine to a minimum level. There was never any attempt to flaunt or "dodge" regulators, and this never affected the experience any student had in any way.

Now we have a very large legal team, and are regulated separately and uniquely in every state in the US, often using laws that don't contemplate virtual classrooms or online learning in any way, and that's just to exist as a school in the first place. It's a complete nightmare that needs reform, and the vast, vast majority of schools are simply below the radar enough that they don't get fined, but it's incredibly difficult and expensive in the United States simply to be in compliance with each state where you might have as few as one or two students.

Beyond that fact, entirely online school where students don't pay unless/until they're hired is a round peg that doesn't fit into the square holes of existing financial regulation either.

* They launched an unpaid intern program, which created backlash int he tech community.

Again, not true. We launched a program called "fellows" where companies didn't pay, but we paid the students, and if the company afterwards hired the student they would pay us back. It was successful and operates to this day.

* They told students they couldn't discharge their debt, which was a lie that got them into even more legal trouble

This is another misconception, but we were actually in the wrong here. Because an ISA isn't a traditional student loan, if a student doesn't get a job the ISA immediately goes away after a five year deferment period. We had some language in the ISA to try to describe that mechanism as not requiring bankruptcy, but the DFPI in California said we should remove that clause. We happily did so, but that clause didn't harm anyone.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#73
post #6

Has anyone had success hiring bootcamp grads? I’ve interviewed dozens and their resume will say something like “Fellow at [bootcamp]” or “Instructor at [bootcamp]”, and it turns out they made a simple programming 101 app and taught a 1hr intro to JavaScript class. None have ever passed an initial screening by me for mid level dev jobs, but I’m curious if anyone else has hired a bootcamp grad for a junior role and had…

It's like asking, has anyone had success hiring college grads? My data science bootcamp had actual Harvard and MIT degree holders (bachelor's, I don't mean their extension / online certificate programs). I guarantee you they had much better experience getting their resumes seen than the guys with no degrees. I'm in another bootcamp-esque program for SWE's and some participants have joined Google, but most have joined random second-tier companies or startups.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "attacked by all sides" comment is quite bizarre. Every pain the company experienced was self-inflicted. They lied about how many students get jobs, which damaged their reputation and is a source of active lawsuits. They dodged California regulators and then lied to students about it. This invalidated every ISA in California before 2020. They launched an unpaid intern program, which created a backlash in the tech…

Also, lame they charge companies to attend Bloomtech career fairs: https://www.bloomtech.com/hire-from-bloomtech

That's not a charge to attend career fairs; our partner companies pay us for white glove recruiting services, advanced access to grads, and for us to find and deliver unique sourcing criteria from our student body.

It costs us a lot of money to offer those services, and I think that program _almost_ covers its own costs, but has been a big winner.

The purpose is to create a relationship that helps learners get hired, and it's been succesful.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#75
post #3

Glad to see this, Lambda School is extremely scummy. Can’t be bothered to operate legally, and lied about it: https://twitter.com/sandofsky/status/1211717254712135680?lan... I really think that the law should be changed so that doing stuff like that would have been a prison term for the CEO (Allred).

This is fundamentally not what happened and a prison term for this would be insane (even California's BPPE would agree with that).

Our counsel told us we didn't need to register with the BPPE because we weren't offering in-person classes (this was somewhat rare back in 2017 - certainly more rare than now). The BPPE sent us a letter that said we needed to register and we did so and began working with the BPPE instantly. We never ever lied about that fact, and there was no attempt to avoid regulation in any way.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#76
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to register or get a license from the FTC to open a business. At least I hope you don't.

It's not about the importance of the act of filing paperwork, it's the fraud of lying to customers that you are following the law and then taking their money. For what it's worth, I don't think prison would help. But maybe some non-dischargable liabilities and a ban from being a corporate officer would.

If you were actually to commit fraud regulators can come for you whether you register or not. The act of registration is simply to make it easier to tell regulators what is happening.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#77
post #3

Glad to see this, Lambda School is extremely scummy. Can’t be bothered to operate legally, and lied about it: https://twitter.com/sandofsky/status/1211717254712135680?lan... I really think that the law should be changed so that doing stuff like that would have been a prison term for the CEO (Allred).

https://applieddivinitystudies.com/lambda-lies/

He also lied about having an auditor verify their placement rates. Caught asking Bookface for an auditor reference while proclaiming it was audited.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#78
post #4

> employees will get normal pay and medical benefits until January 31, 2023 and are “expected to work” through that period. So severance but they have to keep working too? Seems rough. Hard to imagine anyone in that situation would focus on working for their soon-to-be former employer.

This actually isn't true.

There are a few edge cases where folks will be working through that period and contract with us afterwards in different/new roles, but impacted employees are not expected to work with us during that period.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#79
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve noticed that a lot of bootcamp grads are, in fact, legitimately hired by their bootcamps - just not to write code. They are often brought on term by term as TAs until they find work. I suspect this practice is a bit disingenuous of the bootcamps, a way to pad their “successfully employed” rates while keeping labor costs low. But it is hard for me to fault the candidates for putting those experiences in their res…

Good bootcamps won't need to pad their employment numbers, because they'll be producing good quality candidates. So all you're really doing is highlighting the fact you went through a lower quality bootcamp. There's so many bootcamps I don't know which ones are legitimate and which are scams. Without that signal on the candidate's CV, I'd have no idea where the one the candidate has been through ranks. However, to me…

If the vast majority of applicants from one bootcamp claim to be employed by them then I can see why you would be suspicious, but I’d be hesitant to throw out all bootcamp grads who say they’ve been employed by their bootcamp.

There might be perfectly legitimate reasons to be employed. Maybe they were aiding instruction of earlier students as they got more experience, akin to a tutor or teaching assistant in colleges. Maybe they took a temporary job because they were unable to find a job right out of bootcamp, and the reasons for not being able to get a job don’t necessarily have to be negative (e.g. they had familial commitments).

Getting a job from a bootcamp is already hard and it wouldn’t quite sit right with me to reject someone outright for something that could be explainable. Perhaps if you are drowning in applicants then you are forced to be harsher out of practicality, but even then surely there’s a better filter then someone reporting what is ostensibly an experience applicable to job they’re pursuing.

Re: BloomTech, previously Lambda School, cuts half of staff

#80

The CEO was cheering on when Musk laid off half the company. Not surprised.

I wouldn't say I was cheering; I was simply acknowledging that, though difficult, Twitter certainly has too many employees for the amount of revenue they're bringing in, and I am skeptical of claims that Twitter will cease to function as they go from 8,000 employees to whatever the new number is (2,500 seems to be the latest)?

There's certainly internal knowledge that is lost in a transition of that kind, but the amount of money Twitter was burning makes no sense, and while reducing numbers of engineers is risky (and complex systems require more engineers than most people assume), I completely believe that Twitter will be able to sustain the technical operations and move quickly in shipping product with a mere 2,000 engineers.

Post reply on HN