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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#451

Post by deltaseventhree »

ajhurliman wrote: post #400
deltaseventhree wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's universally well known that Asian workers work harder and can be paid less. It's not just about intels capabilities. It's about economic wage standards. The cost is just too high in the US. That being said tsmc workers in Taiwan are by far more capable then Intel this is proven by the 3nm process of which Intel is completely incapable of achieving.

Chip-making isn't the same as sewing together cheap trinkets, and the Chinese economy has changed to support a growing middle-class so the reality of Chinese labor costs has drifted from the stereotype in recent years (especially in the domain of skilled labor). Not to mention the lack of seismic activity and humidity that AZ offers.

No post body was provided.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#452

Post by philliphaydon »

kube-system wrote: post #401
philliphaydon wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan and China being one nation is the policy of the governments of both China and Taiwan. No one in Taiwan and not even the current government consider China/Taiwan together. When KMT fled and created the constitution they claim China. Taiwan is now stuck in limbo because the people just want to live their lives in peace and already consider themselves Taiwanese and independent. But if they change the constituti…

You're speaking to the " state " part of the above comment. Yes, clearly the PRC and ROC are not the same state. "Nation" is not necessarily the same thing.

I’m saying despite the constitution. People in Taiwan don’t claim China to belong to them. This is a relic of the past that is stuck in writing that people suffer from.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#453

Post by deltaseventhree »

galangalalgol wrote: post #380
deltaseventhree wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam, Korea, many parts of Asia. The US is a arbitrary choice. It is done because of the shared rivalry the US has with Taiwan against China.

I think you are certainly right, but why focus on Asia exclusively as a second fab location? One earthquake could flood all of them. As I said, oil giants in the middle east trying to diversify seems pretty ideal. I only suggested EU for the knowledge workers and it faces a different ocean.

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#454

Post by deltaseventhree »

coredog64 wrote: post #381
deltaseventhree wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam, Korea, many parts of Asia. The US is a arbitrary choice. It is done because of the shared rivalry the US has with Taiwan against China.

From a geopolitical standpoint, US investment in Vietnam’s manufacturing capability would put pressure on China. China is trying to move up the value chain with Vietnam already eating their lunch on the low end.

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#455

Post by deltaseventhree »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #433
deltaseventhree wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long sigted. The investment starts from scratch. Why not invest in some places cheaper? Why not invest in a place that has better expertise? Overall the long term vision is to wrestle some control away from China. That is the long term bet the US and tsmc are ultimately making and what's driving the decision. But economically this is a bad bet.

The why is obvious. Not having vital infra solely in the hands of a potential enemy is strategy 101. Economics are but one factor of many.

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#456

Post by makeitdouble »

Since Foxconn’s Wisconsin saga, I’m willing to wait for an actual factory being at least half built to start discussing the implications.

Here we’re debating over an announcement of a promise to build something.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_in_Wisconsin

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#457

Post by monocasa »

jimbob45 wrote: post #246
menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

Does China still want Taiwan if it's no longer technologically relevant? My understanding is that China is making similar strides in its own chip industry to the point where TSMC won't be as nearly as useful to them in 10 years as it is now.

China wants Taiwan orthgonally to any economic value it would provide. Reunification is pretty core to their mythos at this point.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if making Taiwan globally less economically relevant is core to their strategy for reunification. While the US is dependent on Taiwan for chips, Taiwan has a very important defense partner that China can't really compete with. But China has a way better chance of securing Taiwan if the rest of the global community only cares for ideological reasons.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#460

Post by mr_toad »

NeverFade wrote: post #348
placatedmayhem wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still a lot of demand for the not-latest-generation, "long tail" fab processes. Much of the long tail manufacturing was (is?) what the chip shortage was about, rather than the current generation. A good example is the automotive industry. It doesn't typically move quickly or frequently onto newer generation processes as that requires R&D time and other expenses. However, these have been some of the worst sho…

Does "one generation before current" count as "long tail", though? The chip shortage in products like cars has been for much simpler chips, AFAIK. The article says Apple, AMD, and Nvidia are looking to source from the new plant. Aren't they canonical examples of companies that are always looking for the latest and greatest? Why would they be interested in an prev-gen chip?

> The article says Apple, AMD, and Nvidia are looking to source from the new plant. Aren't they canonical examples of companies that are always looking for the latest and greatest?

CPUs and GPUs get all the press, but there are dozens of other chips used in even the latest models that use older technology. For all we know Apple could be buying those chips for USB cables, or pencils.

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