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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#441

Post by puffoflogic »

hammock wrote: post #422
black_puppydog wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about that for a second: why would they want to be relocated? And when is the last time you can remember someone deciding "let's relocate these other people that I'm not part of" and that being okay? I mean, one of these relocations is literally called "march of tears".

35 million or so Latin Americans have relocated themselves to the US, even piled into dark crowded trucks and given up their life savings to dangerous coyotes, to do so. I would imagine the the specter of Communist China knocking on your door and breathing down your neck would be a motivator for many Taiwanese. And there would be a great opportunity for the US to welcome them with open arms as allies

You're assuming the population of Taiwan views itself in the same position vis a vis CCP as the government of Taiwan does, which is not a historically probable claim, for all that the situation is quite complex.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#442

Post by hammock »

puffoflogic wrote: post #441
hammock wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35 million or so Latin Americans have relocated themselves to the US, even piled into dark crowded trucks and given up their life savings to dangerous coyotes, to do so. I would imagine the the specter of Communist China knocking on your door and breathing down your neck would be a motivator for many Taiwanese. And there would be a great opportunity for the US to welcome them with open arms as allies

You're assuming the population of Taiwan views itself in the same position vis a vis CCP as the government of Taiwan does, which is not a historically probable claim, for all that the situation is quite complex.

As far as I can see no one in this thread was taking about “the government of Taiwan” (a complicated term in itself), just the people of Taiwan.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#443

Post by bigbillheck »

ferrumfist wrote: post #393
deltaseventhree wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. My posts suggest none of that. I am simply stating the truth. It is from the perspective of a tsmc shareholder not a patriotic American who wants to beat china for no other reason then being the best. As a tsmc shareholder one part of your post is correct. US workers are unfortunately lazier and slower and more expensive. Not necessarily stupider. You characterized this part of my position partially correctly. As…

> US workers are unfortunately lazier and slower and more expensive I guess we just kinda stumbled into being one of the wealthiest and most developed countries in the world while having the lazier/slowest/most expensive workforce.

I guess it was technically the workforce that did those coups and invasions whenever it seemed that the resource pipes might be turned off.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#444

Post by [deleted] »

lkbm wrote: post #194
throwaway82028 wrote: post #183

Where in Arizona specifically? Have they even decided? Did the government decide to pay for the factory and enroll their for-profit prisoners to work for $0.10/per hour, and divert the remaining water supply to the factory? Arizona seems like a terrible choice for a chip factory, unless they've selected an area that gets natural water... and there aren't many.

Hmm, my understanding was that fabs needed an initial supply of water, but then could cycle that same water for a long time. A quick Google[0] suggests that they've only started doing this heavily pretty recently, but I'm guessing new fabs in Arizona will implement state of the art water-recycling. That said, the numbers in this article suggest that 98% recycling would drop usage to the equivalent of ~6000 homes, whi…

[deleted]

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#445

Post by bcrosby95 »

lkbm wrote: post #194
throwaway82028 wrote: post #183

Where in Arizona specifically? Have they even decided? Did the government decide to pay for the factory and enroll their for-profit prisoners to work for $0.10/per hour, and divert the remaining water supply to the factory? Arizona seems like a terrible choice for a chip factory, unless they've selected an area that gets natural water... and there aren't many.

Hmm, my understanding was that fabs needed an initial supply of water, but then could cycle that same water for a long time. A quick Google[0] suggests that they've only started doing this heavily pretty recently, but I'm guessing new fabs in Arizona will implement state of the art water-recycling. That said, the numbers in this article suggest that 98% recycling would drop usage to the equivalent of ~6000 homes, whi…

That article is somewhat wrong. 10 million gallons of water is not enough for 300k households. It's maybe enough for 300k people. 10 million divided by 300k is 33 gallons. The average use per person even in urban areas is around 40 gallons per day - so that's generally ignoring outdoor irrigation. It's more like enough water for 200k-250k people.

So 2% of that is maybe around enough water for 5k people. Arizona has 7 million people. And residential doesn't even use most of Arizona's water.

It's fine.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#447

Post by philliphaydon »

MikePlacid wrote: post #356
philliphaydon wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan and China being one nation is the policy of the governments of both China and Taiwan. No one in Taiwan and not even the current government consider China/Taiwan together. When KMT fled and created the constitution they claim China. Taiwan is now stuck in limbo because the people just want to live their lives in peace and already consider themselves Taiwanese and independent. But if they change the constituti…

The pro-independence party just suffered a major loss in local elections. The prime-minister who invited Nancy Pelosi for a provocative visit had to resign. Looks like Taiwanese people are not very enthusiastic about becoming a new Ukraine.

Greens never do well in local elections. Local governments have no say at national level. It seems the only people who say they suffered a major blow are pro CCP bots.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#448

Post by lossolo »

deltaseventhree wrote: post #347
HDThoreaun wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tsmc is not coming here because it's an economically wise move. No, it's an economically wise move because of the politics. This plant allows TSMC to gets the CHIPS subsidy, but maybe more importantly it allows them to become part of the military industrial complex which requires that products are made domestically. This fab will print money.

The subsidies make the plant break even. Defense spending is basically another subsidy. Most of the weapons the US makes is useless in a civilization that has mostly been at peace for a long time. Hard to say how far defense will go though in terms of spending. You are definitive about defense spending in a recession. This is wrong. Aspects of the government will begin pulling back. We do not know how this will effec…

> Most of the weapons the US makes is useless in a civilization that has mostly been at peace for a long time

It's not useless, it's all about power projection. When you go to rob a bank and take a gun with you that you will never use then you don't call that gun useless because thanks to projecting your deadly power with it you were able to successfully rob the bank.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#449

Post by deltaseventhree »

adwn wrote: post #403
deltaseventhree wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should be a huge portion of the cost. The material is just silicon. The expertise and know how that goes into this is where most of the money goes. For Taiwan, this expertise is better, faster and cheaper.

You're forgetting about the billions of USD that go into buying the machines that make up the fab. > The material is just silicon. No, a lot of chemicals are required as well.

Those billions are also mostly R&D. It's also from a country external to Taiwan. ASML, the Ductch.

Yes, Obviously there's a lot that goes on in this process, more then "just" silicon. But if you want a summary, then cost expertise and knowhow, eclipses actual process. In a sense it is just "silicon" when measured relative to the ability and knowledge required to transform that material.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#450

Post by philliphaydon »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #327
philliphaydon wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly does this “Han” stuff come from because most people in China are not actually han and those in Taiwan are not han.

The vast majority of Chinese and Taiwanese identify as Han. China is effectively an ethnostate that is cleansing minorities.

Most people in Taiwan don’t identify as Han.
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