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Brave launches private search ads

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Re: Brave launches private search ads

#121

Post by comte7092 »

Possibly a completely dumb idea, but I’ve wondered for a while if there would be value in building an open data web index, something which would allow competing providers to offer different search algorithms on top of.

I don’t know enough about the technical details about building a search engine, so perhaps this isn’t feasible because the algorithm and the index need to be tightly coupled to each other, but my hunch is that it would be beneficial for the web if there were an open street map of search indexes.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#122

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

musk_micropenis wrote: post #79
INeedMoreRam wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we can trust Brave, the article clearly states: "Brave Search only uses your search query, country, and device type to show you ads, and does not keep any kind of profile of your searches." My question to somebody who understands this more than me, by collecting query, country, device type, is that enough info to identify users? Doesn't Brave automatically get User Agent strings, too?

Even if that is enough to identify users, you'd have to show evidence that that information is being handed to advertisers, which is what GP accused them of.

Because this is the entire internet model, it is not at all a reach to assume there is a privacy issue.

Rather, I think you should have to prove that sending your search data OR having your credentials tied to your credit card are privacy preserving.

The burden of proof is on Brave. Not skeptical or cautious users.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#123

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

Pilottwave wrote: post #119

lots of criticism for brave in this thread. they are the best privacy browser at the moment based on leakage tests for default settings. they got a working add-blocker by default. they have privacy preserving ads because of local in browser matching, your data never leaves the browser for the ads, the ads come to you! they even pay you for watching the ads, and enable you to support creators. I feel we finally have a…

>But the web3 space is booming

Is it?

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#124

Post by kevinventullo »

dymk wrote: post #114
kevinventullo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If search engines were considered important enough to be a public utility, one could be funded by taxpayer dollars. Now of course, search results can be heavily politicized, but I suppose the same is true of which books a library decides to carry.

Search engines are important, but they’re funded quite well with ads, so why would anybody go through the effort to make it a public utility?

I suppose if the government felt that ads-supported search engines had such misaligned incentives that it would be net beneficial for society to create one without such incentives, then that might serve as a justification. I don’t actually think this is plausible, just making an analogy with say private fire departments.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#126

Post by secretj »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #98
musk_micropenis wrote: post #20

A lot of angry comments in here, but the post says there's an ad-free paid version, > Ads will give users the option to use our independent search engine with ads that don’t track them, or to sign up for ad-free paid search Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Or do you expect software companies to work for free? (Presumably not the companies you work for).

Can I just get unobtrusive relevant ads without tracking? I didn't mind the search ads on Google back in the day before they got egregious and greedy.

So the ads you see are just based on country, type of device (windows,linux,macos,android or ios), and your search term, which is the minimum you really need for relevance. But these are not kept in any sort of tracking profile and Brave doesn't know anything about you, or queries across sessions. And unlike most of the search engines out there right now, we are motivated to ensure that the ads do not become a mess that buries organic results.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#127

Post by [deleted] »

travisgriggs wrote: post #105

This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are ke…

[deleted]

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#128

Post by AlotOfReading »

yucky wrote: post #113
travisgriggs wrote: post #105

This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are ke…

> But I don't see how they increase the free and open exchange of information on the web. I think I can help explain. Almost all search engine users (~95%+) only scan the first 10-20 results on a query, and those results are dominated by sites that have the budget to spend on SEO. Buying ads gives other voices a chance to break through. Depending on the niche it can be far more expensive to be on the first page of se…

In actual practice those ad slots usually end up dominated by companies looking to take advantage of uninformed consumers (e.g. [1]). Sponsored search slots also introduce the perverse incentive of forcing people to pay for ads on their own results so that potential customers don't get stolen away by competitors' ads.

Let's give a more real-world example, like say a search for 'fine dining restaurants' in Oakland. We'll use ad-ridden yelp as our example [2]. My expectation is that if quality restaurants are being given voices is that the sponsored list should be filled with Michelin starred or at least bib gourmand / equivalent restaurants. Instead the entire first page is sponsored breweries / bars and a burger joint (on a non-adblocking test browser). I have to scroll down to the initially-hidden search results to see Commis at #3.

[1] https://doi.org/10.1086/676333

[2] https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Fine+Dining+Restaurant...

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#129

Post by criddell »

secretj wrote: post #126
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I just get unobtrusive relevant ads without tracking? I didn't mind the search ads on Google back in the day before they got egregious and greedy.

So the ads you see are just based on country, type of device (windows,linux,macos,android or ios), and your search term, which is the minimum you really need for relevance. But these are not kept in any sort of tracking profile and Brave doesn't know anything about you, or queries across sessions. And unlike most of the search engines out there right now, we are motivated to ensure that the ads do not become a mess t…

Why is type of device needed for relevance? I can think of specific searches where maybe it could matter, but generally I don't think it does.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#130

Post by yonaguska »

kevinventullo wrote: post #111
Archipelagia wrote: post #41

Not the biggest fan of Brave myself, but they seem to actually get extra points in my eyes for adding the paid option. It's not like you can pay $3 to Google to get them to stop surveilling you. On a bigger note, monetizing search without ads seem to be a pretty tricky business model. Especially if you want to move beyond being a niche product; even an average HN reader would be hard to convince to pay for a regular…

If search engines were considered important enough to be a public utility, one could be funded by taxpayer dollars. Now of course, search results can be heavily politicized, but I suppose the same is true of which books a library decides to carry.

Yeah, I just don't trust the govt to not politicize search, or at the very least, to not use search results to manufacture consent or other nefarious intentions.

NPR comes to mind.

With private companies, at least there's some visage of a separation from state influence although we are seeing the lash back now with Twitter.

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