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Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

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Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#491
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many in our age bracket 20-30 year olds are struggling to have children Wow... I would have thought you were referring to people that were older. I wonder what the common denominator is there, or if your experience is an outlier. It's obviously noteworthy enough to share. Maybe people that conceive without issue aren't commenting on it as much?

Some fertility problems go unnoticed for a decade. I suggest to my younger (25-29) female friends to have their egg reserve estimated, even if they at that point are not thinking about ever having children. This is because the original issue can be upstream of the couple: a parent who had early menopause, or low ovarian reserve, may pass similar characteristics down to their female progeny. (Source: conversations wit…

> I suggest to my younger (25-29) female friends to have their egg reserve estimated

hmm... yeah, this would be an interesting biomarker for those in their twenties. It could be valuable later in life.

I was surprised to learn women are born with 1-2 million eggs. By 20 years old, they only have 200k-300k left. They lose more every year.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#492
post #22

But are they? https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/05/fears-over-fa...

> In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies and assumptions This response sounds like real science for sure.

No post body was provided.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you intend to become elderly? Perhaps not so great news in 50 years when you are looking for a nursing home.

Have enough investments and fiat to not be the poor sucker who can’t pay for help end of life as the young, productive cohort compresses.

There will be a lot of poor suckers. A lot of pension schemes and even social security in the US rely on having younger workers paying into it. It's a huge part of how people do retirement planning.

If your answer is that you are not planning on counting on it for the future then a lot of people will ask why not stop paying into it and keep the money taxed for yourself? It is a significant tax. You CAN actually stop paying into it and then make yourself ineligible for payments out which includes spousal benefits being cancelled. You CAN conscientiously object, it is a provision of the SSA law.

If a lot of young people saw that, they would withdraw from it and put the trust right now into a deficit which would adversely affect the people withdrawing from it right now.

I think there is a non zero probability of this happening regardless for different, uglier political reasons but it doesn't make a lot of sense for people to be forced to pay into something with no promise of ever getting something back.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#494
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you wish you weren't born, and if so why not end it?

It's certainly preferable that I were never born. But suicide is not the same as never having been. Right now, the marginal utility of living another day is not always negative, but I expect that to change as my physical health deteriorates in the coming years. Once that changes, I'll revisit the suicide issue.

Stick around. The world and things in general will get better.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machinery of society will presumably evolve to match the number of work-capable people. Automation will likely increase, efficiencies will be found, some services will be cut. From my perspective (I'm in my 50s) things have been spiraling out of control for a while now. Do we really need a couple of dozen flavors of Mountain Dew? Must I be inundated with advertisements for crap I'll never buy even when going to e…

Are three car garages common? To be fair, and I’ve said this elsewhere, I think it’s inevitable that we’ll see consistent declines in real estate prices over the next five decades anyway - solely because of the steady tide of newly-vacant houses coming to market due to the collapsing replacement rate - so I doubt the constant construction of new and bigger houses can continue anyway.

I live in a semi-rural area. Three car garages were always seen as the over-the-top status symbol when building a new house, at least back in the day. This is probably a local thing.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#496
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fertility isn't the only consideration with having children when you're old. Skin elasticity and athleticism decreases with age, and that translates into worse tearing, and more difficult births, longer recovery, and more trouble keeping up with a baby after all that. Then, on top of all that, your parents are entering their sunset years rather where you have to help them rather than having grandparents young enough…

Can you imagine having two generations of kids at 20 years old? ‘Grandma’ will be 40 when she has her first grandkid.

I broke this trend in my family. When I met my then-partner's parents in undergrad, they were of similar age to my grandparents. Didn't bother us, but I think they were surprised.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#497
post #436
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started at 24 - certainly regret nothing, but I also can't say it was the smoothest path :D Trying to provide and care while being new to the job market was quite a ride. There's been some changes to make having kids less of a challenge in recent years - at least in Europe. But it still seems like there's a long way to go, especially in terms of corporate cultures that, in my experience, don't really know what to d…

> corporate cultures that, in my experience, don't really know what to do with young parents What do they not know? I’ve been mostly treated fairly (not exactly a young parent though).

I'll share an experience.

My (now) wife and I got pregnant in our senior year of college. That summer I had the good fortune to land my first software dev internship.

At the end of the summer, I was to be given an offer letter to come on as a full time employee after I finished school. I asked in that meeting if I could just continue to work and was told "uh yeah, that's fine I guess". Major victory for me at the time.

I did not share that I was soon to be a father until a few weeks before the baby was due. I was afraid that this situation would negatively color their perceptions of me and my work. But eventually the time came.

I pulled my tech lead aside and asked if I would be able to take a few days off for the birth. He said of course, but, at the time, I was still an hourly employee. My first son was born on Tuesday, I took unpaid time off for the rest of the week, then returned to the office less than a week after my son was born, the following Monday. I really had no other choice - I had been working for about 5 months at the time, and certainly couldn't afford to take any more hit to my paycheck.

About a month later, I asked HR if I had any kind of PTO accrued to take some time off for Christmas. This wound up being how I became a salaried employee - they felt bad that I didn't have PTO and said basically "oh, well, you're full time now anyway, we'll just convert you to salary."

I want to be clear that there was no malice or anything involved in any of these situations, and as a matter of fact, the company was very supportive and provided an absolutely wonderful first job. But still, there was just no procedure or infrastructure in place to support a 23 year old father. Everything that was done to help me through my internship and eventually full time employment was in some sense a just-in-time hack, done by kind people who knew and cared about me.

Had my career started at Accenture or some other gigantic corporate machine, I assume none of those things would have happened for me, even if the HR people were similarly benevolent. Even with all my good fortune, being a parent within the first few months of my professional career was difficult.

Nowadays, 6 weeks of parental leave seems to be pretty standard for professional jobs, and I imagine that benefit would extend even to someone at the entry level (maybe not an intern, but FTEs). But this is a pretty recent development. When my second child was born, I took a week off.

Later that year, the company implemented a single week of paternal leave for new parents , which you would just receive as an extra 5 days of PTO. A very kind and good technical manager, without my asking, went to bat for me and got me the week of PTO refunded, effectively grandfathering me into the new benefit. No one had to do that for me, it didn't even occur to me to ask - but I have remembered that act of care from him for a long time.

So, all told, I had a pretty good level of company support as a young parent. But it's quite easy for me to imagine that any of these strokes of fortune wouldn't have occurred for many others in similar situations.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#498
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fairly natural that a couple in most societies (current and historical) would be better able to provide for their children the older they are. The main exception I can think is family support; having younger grandparents and great grandparents could be an advantage, I guess? I'm not sure I'd look at a society where people have lots of children so they can put them to work and say "yeah, this is the way socie…

In western countries historically men were typically a bit older than their wife but the wife usually was fairly young still. Definitely way younger than now. I think the average maternal age in the US is close to 30 now. This was a rational arrangement since women had fewer economic opportunities. Now women can do basically everything men can do so they choose to defer pregnancy, which has its own consequences that…

You sure about that? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pa...

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another lesson from your story (similar to many of my friends’) is to just have kids younger. It sounds like you started at around 35 — if people started at 30, even, fertility is higher.

Yep, I can confirm this based on personal experience with a gynecologist telling my wife that at 35 the pregnancy is considered a "geriatric pregnancy" (apparently some docs now call it "AMA"...advanced maternal age). This shocked both of us, frankly. We were aware of what the actuarial tables will tell you regarding birth defect rates related to maternal age, but hearing the term geriatric in your mid-thirties is qu…

>Yep, I can confirm this based on personal experience with a gynecologist telling my wife that at 35 the pregnancy is considered a "geriatric pregnancy" (apparently some docs now call it "AMA"...advanced maternal age).

This used to be after 30 not that long ago around here

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#500
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems scary to me. Imagine a world where children have to be conceived in this way: it would be trivial for some authoritarian governments to now control child birth. I don’t mean disincentivizing like China did but actual control.

Republican anti-abortion lobby groups are already planning this. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tennessee-republicans-abortio...

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