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Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#481
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, kids may be incompatible with a lot of lifestyles, but I wouldn’t call them inherently expensive. You just have to adjust your expectations.

Even in super socialized Sweden the first child costs around 180 000 USD (2021) [1] for the median example family. Second child is probably less expensive. [1] https://seb.se/privat/livet/att-skaffa-barn/sa-paverkar-ett-...

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Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#482
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a societal problem when the rational individual choice (to provide your children the best head start) is to wait until your fertility declines to have children.

It seems fairly natural that a couple in most societies (current and historical) would be better able to provide for their children the older they are. The main exception I can think is family support; having younger grandparents and great grandparents could be an advantage, I guess? I'm not sure I'd look at a society where people have lots of children so they can put them to work and say "yeah, this is the way socie…

In western countries historically men were typically a bit older than their wife but the wife usually was fairly young still. Definitely way younger than now. I think the average maternal age in the US is close to 30 now. This was a rational arrangement since women had fewer economic opportunities. Now women can do basically everything men can do so they choose to defer pregnancy, which has its own consequences that people are now learning to manage and deal with through IVF, egg freezing, etc.

Interestingly, genetic mutations from the mother are roughly constant regardless of her age. Paternal genetic mutations rise with age. IIRC a 38 year old man's sperm has double the number of mutations a 28 year old man has.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#483
post #156

My wife and I have a beautiful daughter about to turn 2. But she wouldn't have existed if it weren't for IVF (in vitro fertilization). Had to stab her stomach with needles for a while to make hormones to mass produce eggs and then they took my sperm to put into her eggs and see which ones took. Five viable pairings happened. Three were put into her and out came the one kid. Other two are in cryo for future use, and h…

Another lesson from your story (similar to many of my friends’) is to just have kids younger. It sounds like you started at around 35 — if people started at 30, even, fertility is higher.

Problem is that a lot of people aren't in a position to have kids at 30 mainly due to economic reasons.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#484
post #156

My wife and I have a beautiful daughter about to turn 2. But she wouldn't have existed if it weren't for IVF (in vitro fertilization). Had to stab her stomach with needles for a while to make hormones to mass produce eggs and then they took my sperm to put into her eggs and see which ones took. Five viable pairings happened. Three were put into her and out came the one kid. Other two are in cryo for future use, and h…

Glad it worked out! My daughter is 8mo now and we had concerns going into the 'getting pregnant' phase. If you can't afford IVF or want to do it another way, there are things you can try to do before you start trying to avoid surprises - the main goal is to try to assess your status so you can align expecatations. It's frustrating to 'get started' and think 'it should take about X months' and then not seeing it happe…

Insurance will pay for it. After getting denied a friend of our just kept writing letters until they agreed to pay it. It's a medical condition.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> alcohol, caffeine and meat one of these is definitely not like the others... An all-meat diet I would bet is the best to conceive, because it's the best for hormonal health, judging by the countless anecdotes (e.g. women regaining their cycles after many years) I'm seeing. Anyway, I just wanted to point that out, it's still shocking to me that people still believe that meat is detrimental to health.

Ahh, anecdotes about consuming meat, I can't think of anything more scientifically rigorous and less influenced by sentiment. My own anecdotes tell me that eating meat vastly decreases your fertility rate. Some anecdotes add that it's because of the animal hormones you consume, others state that it's because meat-eating is associated with other health conditions which interfere with conception (obesity, high choleste…

https://defector.com/who-could-have-possibly-predicted-the-b...

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#486
post #478

I did my Master Degree in Organic Chemistry where we tried to develop a male contraceptive pill. I spend a lot of time studying sperm so here is a short list of thing to avoid regarding sperm quality (not ranked): 1. Eating and drinking from plastics (This includes aluminum cans which are plastic lined) [a] 2. Heating food in ANY type of plastic [a] 3. Caffein intake [b] 4. Sugar intake [c] 5. NOT exercising regularl…

Amazing! Thanks for the well-researched info. I did not know aluminum cans were lined. I thought the oxide layer is stable enough.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#487
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fertility isn't the only consideration with having children when you're old. Skin elasticity and athleticism decreases with age, and that translates into worse tearing, and more difficult births, longer recovery, and more trouble keeping up with a baby after all that. Then, on top of all that, your parents are entering their sunset years rather where you have to help them rather than having grandparents young enough…

Can you imagine having two generations of kids at 20 years old? ‘Grandma’ will be 40 when she has her first grandkid.

I find it surprising that this is something that has to be imagined. I run into real world examples of this all the time. It isn't the norm, but it sure isn't something that requires imagination to see all around us.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#488

Now we only need a vaccine against HIV and STDs in general and we can finally do away with condoms.

I can't remember the last time I talked to a gay man who wasn't on PrEP. It's arguable that in reasonably responsible circles, HIV these days poses little-to-no risk, even among sexually promiscuous people. And most other common STDs are completely curable. The big exception is herpes, the spread of which is not prevented by condoms.

I don't have the source to share, but I read that some types of STDs are more and more resistant to antibiotics, to the extent that they need combinations of multiple, last-instance antibiotics to cure it.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#489
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fairly natural that a couple in most societies (current and historical) would be better able to provide for their children the older they are. The main exception I can think is family support; having younger grandparents and great grandparents could be an advantage, I guess? I'm not sure I'd look at a society where people have lots of children so they can put them to work and say "yeah, this is the way socie…

> It seems fairly natural that a couple in most societies (current and historical) would be better able to provide for their children the older they are. When I was born in 1991 and my sister in 1995, a simple police officer and a nurse in half-time could provide for two children with ease, in one of what was even back then one of the most expensive cities in Germany. Today, me (IT worker) and my s/o (public health a…

Rent in Germany is really really cheap. Even in "expensive" cities.

Energy, on the other hand, not so.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#490
"Five years ago, a study describing a precipitous decline in sperm counts sparked extreme concerns that humanity was on the path to extinction."

Extinction, seriously? Why is it necessary to be so hyperbolic with writing these days. Humanity has increased 8x in the last 200 years and we have plenty of artificial means to have children. I seriously doubt low sperm count is going to lead to our extinction.

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