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Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

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Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#101

Post by unalone »

briansmith wrote: post #90
unalone wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I've played with Ubuntu in each iteration, and its level of polish is on a magnitude below what Apple's doing. Compared to Windows, it's very nice: I'd pick Ubuntu over Vista at this point without hesitation. But OS X has polish to a level that's uncanny: it's the sort where I'm still finding out new things about my computer that make my life slightly easier every day. It's really beyond comparison to other opera…

Ubuntu is not more polished than even Windows XP. The main things keeping me from switching my day-to-day work to my Ubuntu partition are (1) text rendering, (2) reliability, (3) battery life, and (4) Lenovo's Thinkvantage tools. Windows XP absolutely kills Ubuntu in these aspects.

That's entirely possible. I've never used Ubuntu on a laptop setting.

From my experience with it, it works great if and only if you can find the right drivers. When it runs well, I like it more than Vista and most likely more than XP. But XP is certainly more supported overall, and that's another thing that's definitely worth considering.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#102

Post by wizlb »

unalone wrote: post #99
wizlb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Kind of like the point that I was responding to? The one that made all those good points about how great Leper'd is? Oh, but since you mentioned it...no I didn't mean any of the things you mentioned. I value the flexibility of being able to do what I want to do, the way I want to do it. For instance, Apple is always trying to lock you into: their hardware, their iTunes store, their AppStore, their ONE way of…

Really? Kind of like the point that I was responding to? The one that made all those good points about how great Leper'd is? Yes, exactly like it. That post was also pointless. For instance, Apple is always trying to lock you into: their hardware, their iTunes store, their AppStore, their ONE way of doing things (see the pattern here?) Apple has complete control over their product. I think that is a good thing. I wou…

That's because you're passive/aggressive and I'm aggressive/aggressive. Not a big deal.

You say dickish things in a passive aggressive way like "Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection" or "I'm fairly certain there are more convert stories among people who have used the Mac than there are stories of people disliking them." or "I can't possibly imagine people liking Windows more once they get into OS X."

or

"Microsoft added features that look "Mac-like" but without the inherent usability."

or

"OS X feels like a complete solution in a way"

And then you hide behind comments like "No offense meant..." or "I don't want to start a flame war" ...BUT.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#103

Post by jimbokun »

mattmaroon wrote: post #92
wizlb wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Apple's full of angels right?

The only difference between the two is that Microsoft was far more successful. Apple would have done everything people complain about Microsoft doing and more. They basically have in the couple product areas where they've had similar success.

I actually made this point once while working for Apple, saying it was like thinking about whether the other side had won World War II.

But I think the point still stands that Microsoft has managed to cause far more harm during their reign than Apple, precisely because they have been more successful. I also think that Apple is somewhat constrained in the damage they can do, because Steve Jobs wants to be a Tyrant of Taste, more so than Ruler of All He Surveys. He has little interest, for example, in the mass business market or the clunky boxes at the bottom of the market. To have Apple branded boxes at that price range, with all the compromises that entails, seems to horrify Jobs.

As for other product areas, probably the most tyrannical is iTunes. But even there, the damage is constrained by the fact that the majority of people still just pirate their music, anyway.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#104

Post by jordyhoyt »

mixmax wrote: post #7

Now if apple would only realise that quicktime on the net has lost out to flash I would be able to wacth this. Quicktime reminds me of realplayer: buggy on PC's, runs lots of processes in the background I didn't ask for and requires me to install itunes which I don't want.

VLC media player: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#105

Post by wizlb »

unalone wrote: post #100
wizlb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and I find it amazing that you think you know what the majority of people are thinking. I'm going off of actual experience talking to actual people that don't live in a bubble. What are you going off of? Your imagination?

Most of the products I use are built by people who use the Mac. That's why I looked into getting a Mac in the first place. 37signals. The Big Noob. The Tumblr team. Paul Graham once wrote an article on using the Mac. The Omni Group and Panic and Delicious Monster. Coudal. Rososo and Vimeo and NowDoThis. Facebook. Everywhere I looked, people told me that the Mac was wonderful and they were fanatic about it. So I gave…

"I'm going off of every designer whose opinion I like and respect."

For the record, I'm not JUST going off of my peers at work, I happen to belong to a number of user groups and I also happen to visit many, many real working people in corporate workplaces around the world and I'm quite confident that it wouldn't be that hard to come up with a list of awesome web 2.0 developers that absolutely adore ASP.Net...

Anyway, sure, I can drop it as soon as you can drop it :)

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#106

Post by unalone »

wizlb wrote: post #102
unalone wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Kind of like the point that I was responding to? The one that made all those good points about how great Leper'd is? Yes, exactly like it. That post was also pointless. For instance, Apple is always trying to lock you into: their hardware, their iTunes store, their AppStore, their ONE way of doing things (see the pattern here?) Apple has complete control over their product. I think that is a good thing. I wou…

That's because you're passive/aggressive and I'm aggressive/aggressive. Not a big deal. You say dickish things in a passive aggressive way like "Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection" or "I'm fairly certain there are more convert stories among people who have used the Mac than there are stories of people disliking them." or "I can't possibly imagine people liking Windows more once they get in…

I'm aggressive/aggressive, too. I just have tact, which you seem to lack.

You say dickish things in a passive aggressive way like "Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection"

It's not dickish if it's true.

or "I'm fairly certain there are more convert stories among people who have used the Mac than there are stories of people disliking them." or "I can't possibly imagine people liking Windows more once they get into OS X."

This isn't passive aggressive. This is genuinely what I believe.

"Microsoft added features that look "Mac-like" but without the inherent usability."

It's not dickish if it's true.

"OS X feels like a complete solution in a way"

It's not dickish if it's true.

And then you hide behind comments like "No offense meant..." or "I don't want to start a flame war" ...BUT.

I've had arguments with Windows users that actually were productive and led to interesting arguments being made. That's why when I write, I deliberately avoid, y'know, calling people dickish. It's why I've avoided insulting you directly during this debate. I mean, you've got an opinion, and my opinion's that your opinion's wrong, but I genuinely think it's possible for people who disagree with one another to learn from each other, and I think it's only possible if you leave the discussion open enough to let the other person talk.

This isn't a matter of conflicting personalities. You're attempting to get some sort of emotional response, and I'm treating this like a debate. I'd rather not have things get ugly on HN: I made that mistake before and it led to a really stupid pissing war. I'd like to believe that you've genuinely got something interesting to say, and you come close to making interesting points, but then you piss that away and start the personal attacks.

Stop it.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#107

Post by unalone »

wizlb wrote: post #105
unalone wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the products I use are built by people who use the Mac. That's why I looked into getting a Mac in the first place. 37signals. The Big Noob. The Tumblr team. Paul Graham once wrote an article on using the Mac. The Omni Group and Panic and Delicious Monster. Coudal. Rososo and Vimeo and NowDoThis. Facebook. Everywhere I looked, people told me that the Mac was wonderful and they were fanatic about it. So I gave…

"I'm going off of every designer whose opinion I like and respect." For the record, I'm not JUST going off of my peers at work, I happen to belong to a number of user groups and I also happen to visit many, many real working people in corporate workplaces around the world and I'm quite confident that it wouldn't be that hard to come up with a list of awesome web 2.0 developers that absolutely adore ASP.Net... Anyway,…

Sure. Let's.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#108

Post by RavingGoat »

unalone wrote: post #57
cbrinker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mac ads have had pc's reputation on the ropes in the collective unconscious." Do you mean Microsoft? If so, it sure as hell hasn't scratched the business world. It's only knicked the consumer world a couple percentage points. I'd reconsider your position. Further, this is kind of old and becoming a nonissue in today's world. With the migration towards non-platform-specific consumer usage of systems (ie. internet) I…

Right now, Apple's pushing for the businessplace. Snow Leopard is supposed to have out-of-the-box Exchange support, which is a step Apple needs to take. Beyond that, Apple's been winning over plenty of small businesses: not the big guys yet, but large corporations can't change on a dime. If Apple stays as consistently reliable for another handful of years, I'd predict us seeing the Mac starting to gain entry to the w…

Apple needs to upgrade their support to compete with the Dells in corporate America.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#109

Post by wizlb »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #88
wizlb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exchange support? Whip-dee-doo. How about offering some _real_ developer tools? Oh, that's cute...you think xCode, Python and MySQL can actually be compared to Visual Studio, C# and SQL Server.

Actually... yes; and, I daresay, comes out on top. Having lost countless hours of my life debugging .NET Framework installation problems (yay, installer ran and finished. Why isn't this damn thing showing up in my list of components?), I have to say that never spend nearly that much debugging silly installation issues with Python and MySQL.

I never had any issue with the .Net framework installation, but I'll take your word for it.

I guess I just feel spoiled by Visual Studio, while every time I start something in Python I feel like I have to spend so much time trying to find quality tools to make it do what I want. It just doesn't feel like a very complete solution to me.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#110

Post by wizlb »

unalone wrote: post #106
wizlb wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you're passive/aggressive and I'm aggressive/aggressive. Not a big deal. You say dickish things in a passive aggressive way like "Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection" or "I'm fairly certain there are more convert stories among people who have used the Mac than there are stories of people disliking them." or "I can't possibly imagine people liking Windows more once they get in…

I'm aggressive/aggressive, too. I just have tact, which you seem to lack. You say dickish things in a passive aggressive way like "Every part of it has been lovingly slavered over to perfection" It's not dickish if it's true. or "I'm fairly certain there are more convert stories among people who have used the Mac than there are stories of people disliking them." or "I can't possibly imagine people liking Windows more…

Please point out one personal attack that I made BEFORE you called me a dick.

That's what I thought. kthxbye.

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