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Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#671

Post by maccard »

mgsk wrote: post #647
maccard wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it would - apps with enough clout will do this: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android And tell you the only way for experience X is to follow these safe steps to unlock your phone and use their launcher.

And if you don't like it, don't do it.

I don't like that argument at all. I can just as easily day if you don't like it, buy an android and use F-droid, but I won't because it's a lazy argument.

A freedom of choice has to be a freedom to choose. As I said farther you the thread, this immediately becomes an "and" rather than an "or".

"I can install this app via my preferred storefront" is a fine choice - but "I have to use all of the services that every third party wants to bundle in to use their specific service" isn't a choice, it's forced upon you and is no better than the situation we have now. We've seen this on android - try and install the Google camera app on a Huawei device and let me know how that goes for you, or use the Samsung app store on your Google device.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#672

Post by lelanthran »

tpmoney wrote: post #614
lelanthran wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is that you'd demand this of _Apple_? We demand this of almost all non-phone appliances. Why should phones get an exemption? No, seriously, why are car manufacturers forced to allow owners the option of non-manufacturer fuel, non-manufacturer tires, non-manufacturer oil and so on, but when it comes to phones, suddenly "the consumers are making an informed choice" ? We regulate this shit for a reason, and that r…

>We demand this of almost all non-phone appliances. Why should phones get an exemption? Do we really? By law you can't install your own software or ECU in your car and use it legally on the roads. I don't see many people pushing to be able to install BSD on their refrigerator. I think most people would be a lot happier if their TVs didn't come with a full OS. Game consoles have been locked down forever. While re-flas…

> By law you can't install your own software or ECU in your car and use it legally on the roads.

Who told you this? As long as the ECU you install meet the requirements, feel free. There's even a few open source ones. See https://megasquirt.info/

You are displaying the problem with allowing Apple special exemption to flout the rules - eventually people start believing that it must be against the law ... just like you did.

Better nip this nonsense while we can instead of everyone starting to believe that they may not modify the devices they purchased and own simply because the manufacturer said so.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#673

Post by aussieshibe »

bayindirh wrote: post #526
aussieshibe wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? I heard an argument like this a lot at the start of discussions about whether we should be able to choose to WFH in the longer term. "I don't want to WFH because..." Ok, sure, but nobody is trying to force you to. It might just be me, and I'll de…

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? No. > It might just be me, and I'll definitely fret about whether I'm being unreasonable for at least the next couple of hours, but this kinda frustrates me. The thing is, I'm stating my position and not telling that just because I choose somet…

To be clear: I'm mostly complaining about the general concept of people giving "I like A" answers to "should we allow people to choose B over A" questions.

Your comment was an example of that, if not a particularly egregious one. We're not about to sway Apple in a HN comment thread. Specific reference to your comment was intended only to use it as an example to illustrate the point.

> I expressed no such fear or concern as far as I'm aware?

Nor did I claim that you did. While it is not your position that allowing others a choice would harm you, explicitly mentioning that you don't stand to lose anything by allowing that choice is supportive of the main point in the next sentence.

> the parent asked for a counter-opinion

They didn't.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#674

Post by maccard »

flohofwoe wrote: post #648
maccard wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it would - apps with enough clout will do this: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android And tell you the only way for experience X is to follow these safe steps to unlock your phone and use their launcher.

...and there's really nothing wrong with that. If it would, then PC gaming would have collapsed a long time ago.

Sure there is. It's fragmentation, and it's not a choice. I can't buy my favourite Unisoft game and play it with my friends in steam, instead I'm forced to download uplay or the epic launcher.

That's not a choice, and it's no better than being forced to use steam in the first place.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#675

Post by VoodooJuJu »

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

We're sorry, but you don't have a choice. You will own nothing, and you will be happy.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#676

Post by z3phyr »

In the windows world I download the installer for whatever software I need, click next->next->next (or choose where I want my stuff in my filesystem, add it to the path, opt in or out of stuff) and it works out of the box. No stores. (Well there is one, but I guess no one uses that)

In the linux world, I mostly look for package managers, or if not, its mostly just ./configure -> make -> make install (or choose my own defaults at configure stage). (There are some app stores like canonical, but I guess no one uses that)

Haven't used modern apple computers much, but I suppose its a mix of dragging and dropping dmg files, installers and package mangers (brew) or compile it yourself stuff.

Why do any phones not do installation like this? Its simple and you get what you want?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#677

Post by aussieshibe »

mavhc wrote: post #662
maccard wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? Not OP but yeah, I think it would. Im currently an android user because I thought it wouldn't, but in practice it does. The most explicit example is that despite owning a flagship phone from a flagship manufacturer, the Google suite of apps don…

To be fair it's also impossible to use Apple Pay on a foldable iPhone

Is that a challenge?

I'm sure I have a couple of vice grips around here somewhere. I wonder how far an iPhone will fold before Apple Pay stops working. Surely some YouTuber has tested this already...

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#678

Post by gadders »

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

You'll own nothing and be happy.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#679

Post by dalbasal »

Kettle. Pot. Black.

Monopolistic practices is what Spotify is, not just something it does.

Recently they went about buying podcasts. The idea was/is to kill off the free protocol and centralise podcasts under their control... That way, listeners, advertisers and podcasters would all have to live by spotify's rules. Like streaming music.

Sure. Apple give themselves every advantage, cream the market, etc. They have a monopoly. So does Spotify!

What happens when an artist doesn't like Spotify's take-it-or-leave-it terms? Why should apple treat you better then you treat others? Cry me a river.

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