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The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#391

Post by corobo »

garbanz0 wrote: post #206
corobo wrote: post #52

Heh, decent timing. My last CBT session ended with me realising one of my issues may be a lasting effect of bullying. Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Boiled it down and down and down until we hit the core of the issue and realised I don't want to poke my head up and ship code/sites/ideas/etc because I believe I'll be bullied for it. In school doing anything th…

Can you elaborate on how the deception part is related to the bullying? I don't see the connection

Same way an abused dog will flinch when you raise your hand. You recognise the signs of bad things to come. Most flinches are wrong, but if you're always quick on the defensive you don't get hurt as often.

Someone looks shifty, or pauses at just the right moment in their sentence. Or scratches their nose while trying to get you to do something, or can't keep eye contact when they usually would. If they excessively look away for a moment during a disagreement get yourself ready to block the sucker punch. Or they accuse you out of the blue of doing something that's a complete 180 of your character -- ask them straight back if they're doing it themselves.

I can't really explain it too well I realise, having edited this comment like 20 times, as I've only just started looking into it myself.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#392

Post by corobo »

dqpb wrote: post #346
corobo wrote: post #52

Heh, decent timing. My last CBT session ended with me realising one of my issues may be a lasting effect of bullying. Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Boiled it down and down and down until we hit the core of the issue and realised I don't want to poke my head up and ship code/sites/ideas/etc because I believe I'll be bullied for it. In school doing anything th…

At 34 I think you should feel free to do exceptional things. The reality is, probably no one will care.

They definitely won't care if I don't do it!

The main thing from my perspective is that I care if I don't do it, to the point of depression - hence the therapy :)

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#393

Post by licebmi__at__ »

PaulHoule wrote: post #218
beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private schools are an instance of opportunity hoarding, and "opportunity" should be understood in a number of ways. The opportunity to buy a certain level of freedom from bullying in favour of a "selective" crowd, for instance. Though I doubt there is less bullying in private schools, more that it manifests in different ways; if I had to hypothesize, I might suppose the bullying is of a different intensity though.

I was bullied intensely in the public schools. My parents were able to get me into a private school for just one year and the difference was night and day. For the first time in my life I was able to go to school and get respect. They sent me back to the public schools for the fourth grade and it was war all the time all over again. Someone I know used to brag about the stunt he pulled to embarrass the private high s…

I had the an opposite experience. I had a rich kid pull a knife to my throat in a fancy private school, the fanciest of my city, which is why my parents got me in. And he went by with a slap in the hand. I got kicked out of it because after several years I became confrontational to the teachers, which is what mattered to them, and went to a public school, where things went mostly fine. Kids could still be mean, but they were not untouchable because pedigree, so things were more reigned in, and kids were more inclusive and less worried about in/out group. Then came back to a different private school, and even if it didn’t get to the same awfulness level because I was more on the defensive, it was once again the same casual ostracism.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#394

Post by vintermann »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #215
PaulHoule wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if private schools are a way that rich kids can afford to be different but poor kids can't. See https://sfstandard.com/business/inside-ftx-founder-sam-bankm... Would rich kids be facing much more competition for elite spots from poor but smart kids if bullying wasn't part of the curriculum in the public schools? Given that only 10% of kids get to go to a school where dignity is assured, it could be that 90%…

Private schools are an instance of opportunity hoarding, and "opportunity" should be understood in a number of ways. The opportunity to buy a certain level of freedom from bullying in favour of a "selective" crowd, for instance. Though I doubt there is less bullying in private schools, more that it manifests in different ways; if I had to hypothesize, I might suppose the bullying is of a different intensity though.

> Though I doubt there is less bullying in private schools

Why wouldn't there be? Wouldn't safe, comfortable kids have less to win and more to lose from aggression?

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#395

Post by vintermann »

ShroudedNight wrote: post #312
garbanz0 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how the deception part is related to the bullying? I don't see the connection

Hazarding a guess: A frequent theme in bullying (at least in my experience) is falsely building up an expectation of positive outcome, then pulling out the rug, while blaming the victim for having unrealistic expectations, usually with rhetoric that they are inherently unworthy of positive outcomes, so by deceiving themselves they have only revealed their compounded lack of worth. Experience that enough and I would e…

You hit the nail on the head. Building up false hopes of acceptance in order to tear them down is especially characteristic of how girls bully other girls, but boys can certainly do it too.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#396

Post by vintermann »

kingofheroes wrote: post #62

When I was coming up, especially in middle school, we were always told that you should just ignore bullies and they would go away. This, of course, never actually worked. And anyone who did fight back against their bullies were punished just as severely, if not moreso if they swung first, as the bully. This entire approach was complete BS and only served to enable bullies because they now know that their victims eith…

Dan Olweus, the father of studying bullying and anti-bullying interventions, also studied this. He found that fighting sports did not help bullying at all, and there was even evidence it made it worse.

It's not so surprising when you think about it. Bullying is about power, but it isn't being good in a fight itself that makes some kids have power over others. It's social, not physical. The victim had the ability to strike back physically all along, they don't need special training. In theory the victim could stab the bully in the back in plenty of ways - even literally. The reason they don't do that, and the reason the bullies don't fear it, is because all the ways the victim could strike back would be scorched earth. It makes no difference if it's with freshly learned BJJ or a weapon.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#397

Post by vintermann »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #234
kingofheroes wrote: post #62

When I was coming up, especially in middle school, we were always told that you should just ignore bullies and they would go away. This, of course, never actually worked. And anyone who did fight back against their bullies were punished just as severely, if not moreso if they swung first, as the bully. This entire approach was complete BS and only served to enable bullies because they now know that their victims eith…

100%, the way to avoid being bullied is to not be an easy target. I once had a kid bullying me in middle school. I spoke with my mother about it, who recommended I say something to the teachers, which I did. When that didn't work I knocked the shit out of him the next time he tried to bully me, to the point that he was running around the edges of the classroom trying to get away from me while I chased him down to bea…

> the way to avoid being bullied is to not be an easy target.

That may work for the individual, but there's always going to be an easiest target. We have studies of bullying interventions, including teaching kids self respect by way of martial arts, and changing the victim doesn't work.

I suggest people should look into the actual science on this. A good start is "Bullying at school: what we know and what we can do" by Dan Olweus from 1991.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#398

Post by vintermann »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #228
s1artibartfast wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was something that you could have done yourself to prevent or stop it, would you refuse to do it? If there are skills that could be taught to children to prevent their own bullying, would you deny them?

I would take it 1 step farther, if you're not teaching your children how to deal with bullies themselves then you're harming them for life. There's a point at which the child cannot possibly deal with it and you as the parent must step in to protect them, but most of the time if a child learns how to deal with bullies you don't need to.

You sound like you have never met a real bully. Just because a kid is mean and tough doesn't mean they're a bully.

Actual bullies have a very keen sense of how the victim might fight back and what it would cost them. And they go ahead with the bullying - breaking down a person, because they can - because they know the victim can't effectively fight back.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#399

Post by [deleted] »

a1pulley wrote: post #251
corobo wrote: post #52

Heh, decent timing. My last CBT session ended with me realising one of my issues may be a lasting effect of bullying. Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Boiled it down and down and down until we hit the core of the issue and realised I don't want to poke my head up and ship code/sites/ideas/etc because I believe I'll be bullied for it. In school doing anything th…

Does anyone have experience with going to a "school within a school" for "gifted and talented" kids? I was trying to figure out why I don't remember any bullying from my middle school or high school, when it dawned on me that I might have been insulated from it by taking classes exclusively with gifted and talented kids —i.e., kids from stable/whole/educated households. I went to a high school where kids came from a…

[deleted]

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#400

Post by rukuu001 »

jongjong wrote: post #342

I think some degree of bullying is fine as it helps to prepare children for the real world. Once you've grown up, everyone constantly tries to take advantage of you, cheats you, breaks your morale, lies to you and then gaslights you about everything... The world is run by bullies and you need some serious prep work for that! That, said, I've heard stories of bullying where someone gets their head held down a toilet.…

My friend, that is bleak.

I used to feel that way, but found I was continually having those experiences because of the people I was with, and the expectations I had.

It's possible to have a life surrounded by supportive, loyal, strong and gentle people who treat you with respect.

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