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The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#381

Post by tetris11 »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #215
PaulHoule wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if private schools are a way that rich kids can afford to be different but poor kids can't. See https://sfstandard.com/business/inside-ftx-founder-sam-bankm... Would rich kids be facing much more competition for elite spots from poor but smart kids if bullying wasn't part of the curriculum in the public schools? Given that only 10% of kids get to go to a school where dignity is assured, it could be that 90%…

Private schools are an instance of opportunity hoarding, and "opportunity" should be understood in a number of ways. The opportunity to buy a certain level of freedom from bullying in favour of a "selective" crowd, for instance. Though I doubt there is less bullying in private schools, more that it manifests in different ways; if I had to hypothesize, I might suppose the bullying is of a different intensity though.

My private school years made it very clear to me that I wasn't supposed to excel because of my background. I was there to conform to the rigid boarding master rules, write maths with a fountain pen (excruciating for a left-hander), and generally know that I did not belong.

I wasn't bullied by the other students, but I witnessed an incredible amount of racism to other students that was largely whistled under the carpet. The "vote Tory" banners under the school entrance every election day, the sheer theft of the school administration when it came to school uniforms, stationary, and simple things like paper.

And then the elitism. They tell you that you're special to be there, next world leaders in politics or industry or what have you. Of course, they don't mean you - they mean the hand-selected elites that served as prefects or head boys and other from purer backgrounds with the same grades as yours.

Uni was a breath of fresh air, like finally stepping out of the shadow of someone else's ego and never realising it until that moment.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#382

Post by MrJohz »

thewebcount wrote: post #230
MrJohz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you're replying to, but I was bullied as a child, and honestly, the problem is hard to deal with. I was not good at socialising, I found it difficult to read social cues, and I was kind of irritating a lot of the time. None of that excuses bullying, of course, but ultimately a large part of what caused that bullying was my own behaviour. If I'd have been more socially adept, if I'd realised that th…

But isn't one really useful way to learn by having people older and wiser than you step in and explain the situation to everyone involved? You don't just throw a bunch of math symbols at a child and say, "learn how to do arithmetic." You teach them what numbers and numerals are and how to manipulate them. You teach them easier concepts first, and then build on them. That needs to be done for both bullies and their vi…

That's definitely true, but I think you've got to know what you're teaching. You can't just teach that bullying is bad, because - while it definitely is - that's not solving the underlying problem. Instead, I think you've got to take an active role in teaching healthy social interactions, especially to those kids who are struggling to figure things out. We need to embrace emotional intelligence as a taught intelligence, where I think all too often we just ignore it with excuses like "that's just who they are".

And that's not going to work for everyone, so obviously there still needs to be repercussions for people who do bully others, and we should make it clear that bullying is never acceptable, but I think we need to concentrate more on helping the people being bullied to grow, rather than stopping the bullies themselves. To come back to your maths analogy, if someone's struggling with arithmetic, you can't just make the subject easier and tell them they don't need to worry about it, they still need to actually learn the subject, even if it's hard for them.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#383

Post by bentley »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #295
foldr wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think you problably have some sampling bias in your adult interactions. Is there anyone who doesn't have 'sampling bias' in their adult interactions? This seems like a misapplication of a technical term.

I think it is a fair description of the error. "the well adjusted adults I know easily resolve issues without violence" does not mean that you should expect the same results for all adults, or for all children.

The original assertion I disputed was that we should accept that the social dynamics in a school match those of a prison.

Certainly I don’t pretend there aren’t environments where adults are violent and unreasonable. Such as prisons, or other places with “people who regularly commit violence, rape, and beat their wives.”

If your argument is that school environments must be similarly unpleasant because they take students from all strata of society, I counter: we do not take teachers and administrators from all strata of society, and society should hold schools to a higher standard than environments where violence and mental abuse unavoidably happen constantly, because we can take lessons from environments where such things are not normal.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#384

Post by bentley »

dullcrisp wrote: post #379
qwerpy wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chiming in with my anecdote. Took all honors classes throughout high school, so I pretty much never mixed with kids outside of that bubble. Was one of the few Asians in my high school in the small midwestern town, so I'm sure there was potential for bullying. But I wasn't bullied, and I credit some of that to the tiered class system. This is one reason I'm up in arms about public school districts near me shutting dow…

If I understand you correctly, shutting down gifted programs because they aren’t equitable doesn’t make sense. But if you wanted my advice, you might get further if you made that point without the racism.

The assertion that there are “not academically-inclined demographics” comes from those working to shut down gifted programs. Need we pull out the Smithsonian’s “whiteness” chart again?

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#385

Post by CalRobert »

zmgsabst wrote: post #227
haswell wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you’re saying, but I think it’s important to take a more nuanced viewpoint rather than reducing such parents to “bad people”. I think it’s fair to criticize such people, or point out why it’s a problematic approach, but many parents are just trying to do what they believe is the right thing, misguided though it may be. Education and correcting misconceptions is important, and applying a binary mindset to…

Everyone is trying to do what they think is right — you can read the pro-social statements of many dictators. I think teaching your kids not to defend themselves is obviously bad parenting — and the people who do that, to the result of their own children getting hurt, are bad people.

To be fair some people are just trying to not have to deal with bullies because they're lazy. The "just ignore them" crowd for instance.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#386

Post by dullcrisp »

bentley wrote: post #384
dullcrisp wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand you correctly, shutting down gifted programs because they aren’t equitable doesn’t make sense. But if you wanted my advice, you might get further if you made that point without the racism.

The assertion that there are “not academically-inclined demographics” comes from those working to shut down gifted programs. Need we pull out the Smithsonian’s “whiteness” chart again?

I looked up what you’re talking about and the good news is it looks like that chart was pulled with an apology, so you should be able to rest easy now.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#387

Post by 4gotunameagain »

ace2358 wrote: post #380
throwaway161718 wrote: post #371

(there are 300+ comments and I have only skimmed) Q: Is there not a single (former) bully who is reading it who can share why they did what they did? Being a short guy and a motormouth, I got bullied aplenty (perhaps beaten up is the correct word), but I want to believe that it didn't leave any long-term effects. But then I do have a short fuse and I procrastinate like there's always a tomorrow. So maybe, my self-ana…

Interesting question! I’ll speak up. Context: Australian, male, went to shitty public school in an old and wealthy suburb that had a dozen private schools and 1 public school. I was from a dysfunctional family with a lot at home issues. I wasn’t smart or hard working and because of my metabolism and genetics, I was obese until about 18 when my body started to mature (later compared to my peers). I got bullied. Hard.…

Redirected aggression in baboons has been proven to reduce stress hormones.

I also redirected my aggression to weaker kids in school, and I also got redirected aggression from stronger kids. We need to accept that in many cases we are not better than baboons, and try to find ways to accommodate our primal behaviours, not ignore them or pretend that we are so superior as a species.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#388

Post by corobo »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #329
corobo wrote: post #52

Heh, decent timing. My last CBT session ended with me realising one of my issues may be a lasting effect of bullying. Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Boiled it down and down and down until we hit the core of the issue and realised I don't want to poke my head up and ship code/sites/ideas/etc because I believe I'll be bullied for it. In school doing anything th…

> Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Along this vein, I think the internet (Reddit especially) has been spreading an idea that "ADHD explains everything" in recent years. Every year I feel like I see more and more people self-diagnose with ADHD and then stop looking further for any explanation for their psychological situation. In some cases, people seem to get w…

Oh absolutely. I'm open to it being something else but as it currently stands two people trained in the field reckon it's ADHD so I'll go with it for now.

In any case being diagnosed with ADHD was just me finding a missing edge piece of my jigsaw, it helps to know what I'm working with but there's plenty still to do.

I actually started the CBT because of that, I realised ever since I got diagnosed I was leaning into ADHD as an excuse (welp that's just me, can't help it!) and doing less overall than when I didn't know, which I thought was lame. Like that's it, I get a diagnosis and then give up trying to live? Lol no.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#389

Post by poisonborz »

theonething wrote: post #257
poisonborz wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and also to keep the kid in an associal bubble. Socialisation and experiencing/handling all kinds of people in life is the most important skill to be learned in school. I woulnt want to give this up for comfort.

> and also to keep the kid in an associal bubble. There are other ways to socialize kids besides school. As I understand it, things like field trips and social gatherings are an important part of a well balanced homeschool experience. Instead of just studying about government from books, take a field trip to City Hall, observe a public meeting and talk to people there. Spend time with other home school families (via…

The emphasis here is more on the bubble. Who will decide on this trip? The single homeschool teacher. Who would the kids meet regularly? Kids of parents who can afford homeschooling. Field trips are one-off short contained episodes and can't replace having to live daily life with dozens, hundreds of other kids, and dozens of teachers/input voices. Of course, a lot of them will be adverse, inefficient, aggressive, in different developmental stages. How to deal with them is the learning. The family home with understanding parents is still central to this. There is that, and the "out there".

I feel that motivation of most homeschoolers - a lot of time fuelled by their own bad memories - is to provide an "adequate", contained, controlled chicken coop. Life is anything but that. I can't believe one can go in with a pharmacy scale and make a just fine sampling of daily societal life.

Source, somehwat: I was also bullied in school a lot, but in the end I think I could learn and grew from the experience.

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