The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence • Hacker News Board

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#251

Post by a1pulley » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #52

Heh, decent timing. My last CBT session ended with me realising one of my issues may be a lasting effect of bullying. Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Boiled it down and down and down until we hit the core of the issue and realised I don't want to poke my head up and ship code/sites/ideas/etc because I believe I'll be bullied for it. In school doing anything th…

Does anyone have experience with going to a "school within a school" for "gifted and talented" kids? I was trying to figure out why I don't remember any bullying from my middle school or high school, when it dawned on me that I might have been insulated from it by taking classes exclusively with gifted and talented kids —i.e., kids from stable/whole/educated households. I went to a high school where kids came from a mix of blue collar and lower-earning white collar families; does bullying still happen at public high schools in wealthy areas?

There's a lot of discussion here about how private school kids are insulated from bullying. Does anyone have first-hand experience or hard evidence of this? Based on books and movies about boarding school, it's hard to believe this.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#252

Post by MrVandemar » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #233

thewebcount wrote: post #212

I sometimes feel like I'm in some alternate universe when I read stuff like this: > These new findings indicate that interventions should also focus on supporting victims of bullying and helping them build resilience; ... > These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age. Have we considered ways to make bullies n…

This presupposes that bullying is always explained by something environmental or that it's learned behavior. But what if bullying is just fun for some people? What if human beings have differing innate levels of aggression, empathy, and tolerance? What if some people see bullying and feel a little pit in their stomach -- fear, disgust, anger -- and what if others simply don't? "The blank slate" conception of the worl…

>But what if bullying is just fun for some people?

We have a word for those people: "sociopath"

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#253

Post by thewebcount » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:45 PM UTC

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #224

thewebcount wrote: post #212

I sometimes feel like I'm in some alternate universe when I read stuff like this: > These new findings indicate that interventions should also focus on supporting victims of bullying and helping them build resilience; ... > These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age. Have we considered ways to make bullies n…

> Have we considered ways to make bullies not want to bully? That seems way more productive to me. At over 40 years of age I've had to deal with people attempting to bully me, most of them are completely shocked when they realize they can't. My point here is that if you think bullying is something that stops at graduation then sure, that sounds like a reasonable position, but the premise itself is wrong. One of my fa…

Do you think that if bullies were stopped when young, they might be able to turn into adults that don't bully?

Regardless, as others have said here, I have way more avenues for dealing with bullies as an adult, including but not limited to getting my own lawyers.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#254

Post by thewebcount » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #233

thewebcount wrote: post #212

I sometimes feel like I'm in some alternate universe when I read stuff like this: > These new findings indicate that interventions should also focus on supporting victims of bullying and helping them build resilience; ... > These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age. Have we considered ways to make bullies n…

This presupposes that bullying is always explained by something environmental or that it's learned behavior. But what if bullying is just fun for some people? What if human beings have differing innate levels of aggression, empathy, and tolerance? What if some people see bullying and feel a little pit in their stomach -- fear, disgust, anger -- and what if others simply don't? "The blank slate" conception of the worl…

I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. If some people find bullying fun, they should be taught why it isn't fun for others and dealt with if they continue. I mean I'm sure rapist think that their rape is fun or empowering or something, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#255

Post by kreelman » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:49 PM UTC

Great that this has made it to the front page of Hacker News.

So sad that this happens. I changed schools 5 times and only 2 of them had no bullying. It's true that it changes you. There are some good resilience changes that happen, but there are bad changes too.

...Unfortunately I think it is the human condition to want to have power over others. It would be awesome if there was some way to fix this, but we are all a bit broken I think.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#256

Post by thewebcount » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

olau wrote: post #243

thewebcount wrote: post #212

I sometimes feel like I'm in some alternate universe when I read stuff like this: > These new findings indicate that interventions should also focus on supporting victims of bullying and helping them build resilience; ... > These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age. Have we considered ways to make bullies n…

I read somewhere that to be successful you need to focus on the environment people are in, as in instead of trying to figure out who the bullies are, you need to figure out why a certain environment leads to bullying behaviour.

That sounds productive to me.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#257

Post by theonething » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:56 PM UTC

poisonborz wrote: post #250

theonething wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're strongly considering homeschooling our kid. We have reservations (read are scared of how hard it sounds compared to sending them off to school) but hearing about experiences like this move us in that direction. It sounds like a best of both worlds. Avoid bullies and other bs associated with institutional education and instead have a customized, curiosity driven education.

...and also to keep the kid in an associal bubble. Socialisation and experiencing/handling all kinds of people in life is the most important skill to be learned in school. I woulnt want to give this up for comfort.

> and also to keep the kid in an associal bubble.

There are other ways to socialize kids besides school. As I understand it, things like field trips and social gatherings are an important part of a well balanced homeschool experience.

Instead of just studying about government from books, take a field trip to City Hall, observe a public meeting and talk to people there.

Spend time with other home school families (via homeschool associations) and other families in general. Take trips with them. Let the kids hangout among themselves.

Homeschooling gives you that freedom.

Anecdotally, I personally know homeschooled young adults that are confident, have great social and communication skills and are doing very well in life thus far.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#258

Post by thewebcount » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 10:56 PM UTC

wutheringh wrote: post #219

thewebcount wrote: post #212

I sometimes feel like I'm in some alternate universe when I read stuff like this: > These new findings indicate that interventions should also focus on supporting victims of bullying and helping them build resilience; ... > These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age. Have we considered ways to make bullies n…

The scientific consensus is that more commonly aggressive disorders that involve violating others’ rights like BPD and ASPD are less treatable than anxiety and depression. Stop trying to apply feels-right reasoning to complex medical topics. You’re out of your wheelhouse.

I'm not sure how getting to the root of the problem instead of treating the symptoms is "trying to apply feels-right reasoning to complex medical topics." If the topics are more complex, let's address those complexities. I feel like when they say, "We should teach kids how to survive bullying better," they're the ones trying to apply feels-right reasoning to a complex situation. That's a short-term solution. If the real, long-term solution is medical intervention of some sort, then do that! But don't let the bullying continue and put all of the work on the victim of the bullying. Sure, we can help them be more resilient, as I said above. But the actual problem needs to be addressed no matter how hard or complex it is.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#259

Post by Jensson » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 11:00 PM UTC

hateful wrote: post #247

s1artibartfast wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was something that you could have done yourself to prevent or stop it, would you refuse to do it? If there are skills that could be taught to children to prevent their own bullying, would you deny them?

Of course I would. I feel as though this is a false dichotomy. It isn't either/or. I wish I got the help that I needed and that adults took it more seriously - not going into detail, but I ended up almost dying because of it.

The study literally says that you should ALSO help the victim build resilience, it never says that we should stop preventing bullies from bullying. You are creating a strawman here.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#260

Post by GuB-42 » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

thewebcount wrote: post #212

I sometimes feel like I'm in some alternate universe when I read stuff like this: > These new findings indicate that interventions should also focus on supporting victims of bullying and helping them build resilience; ... > These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age. Have we considered ways to make bullies n…

> Have we considered ways to make bullies not want to bully?

Why not both?

This is a research paper, not a political document. Here, researchers focus on the psychology of the bullied, and make a suggestion that may improve his condition. There are, I guess, other research papers that focus on the bully, and others that focus on the environment, each with their own conclusions.

The job of policymakers is to take all the suggestions and build a policy based on what researchers consider effective, in addition to other considerations like ethics and cost. It is up to them do decide if it is more important to prevent bullies from bullying or if it is better to teach kids how not to be bullied.

Researchers are just there to give facts, backed by evidence.