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Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#231

Post by endisneigh »

satvikpendem wrote: post #200
endisneigh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So since all computers are Unix* or Windows, there's no competition? Ridiculous.

Imagine all Windows computers required you to use the Microsoft Store to download any piece of software, and you had to pay 30% for that privilege. Oh, and if every browser on the store was just another version of Internet Explorer (which Microsoft already got in trouble for around 20 years ago for just this one issue, much less all the others). And on the Unix side it's slightly better where you can download apps ou…

Which apps require you giving 30% to apple or Google?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#232

Post by biztos »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #175
marricks wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it the users have two crappy options based on business model: 1) Apple's freedom from inspection: they control your device and their ecosystem because they make money off the ecosystem. The take a cut of the phone/computer/watch you buy then anything you buy in their ecosystem because the ecosystem is their product. Your data is (mostly) safe from advertisers because that's not their business. 2) Google…

Apple already implements a solution on the Mac. The Mac defaults to signed apps. And you need to change a setting to allow unsigned apps. iOS could easily default to what we have today, but allow the installation of non App Store apps after users change a setting and confirm after reading a scary warning pop up, that tells users they may be exposing themselves to data theft, hacking, viruses and money theft.

I really want this to happen, and I hope Apple is forced to make it happen — a fairly likely scenario in the EU I think — but if they do allow side-loading I fear they will disable all sorts of Apple services when you flip that switch.

No more Apple Pay, for starters. Maybe no iMessage. Things where they can argue they have to turn them off to protect the user, and/or themselves, from rogue apps.

And then you could have a kind of freedom, but it wouldn’t be a very useful one. You can already load whatever you want on your own phone if you have the source and do the build yourself. I can pretty easily imagine Apple making it so you can side load closed apps but almost nobody ever does.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#233

Post by satvikpendem »

endisneigh wrote: post #231
satvikpendem wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine all Windows computers required you to use the Microsoft Store to download any piece of software, and you had to pay 30% for that privilege. Oh, and if every browser on the store was just another version of Internet Explorer (which Microsoft already got in trouble for around 20 years ago for just this one issue, much less all the others). And on the Unix side it's slightly better where you can download apps ou…

Which apps require you giving 30% to apple or Google?

Why are we talking about government apps?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#234

Post by juve1996 »

starik36 wrote: post #167
95014_refugee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially just the typical corporate aversion to taxation. They want to benefit from the infrastructure, but don't want to pay for it. Nothing new here, other than the weird tech bros leaping to defend the behaviour...

The situation where you can purchase a service for 30% less elsewhere but not on the iPhone is pretty insane. And on top of that, you are not allowed to tell your users how to get a better deal. Regardless of his reasoning, Apple and some others have too much power.

How can Apple have "too much power" here, when there is a clear alternative where it is cheaper?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#235

Post by somethoughts »

dmix wrote: post #166
fishcrackers wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like being able to trust my device and my kids device, if you wan't something to hack on get a pinephone or something the reality is that billions of people need to trust their phones with their most personal information, fininaces and lives and apple's policies while sometimes annoying do a lot to build that trust they aren't a big secret and if you don't like it you're free to not buy their products

Apple could still have a "developer" mode you have to jump through a complicated technical process to enable...just like MacOS let's you disable system integrity protection by running a terminal command and rebooting into a boot disk then running another terminal command. It could void support plans so it's not Apple's problem. That wouldn't affect your kids and telling Grandma how to do that over the phone is very d…

I think the issue with that scenario is that some hack of a Mac in developer mode will get reported in the media in big scary headlines as "All Macs finally hackable" - (which would technically be true but it'd be missing the fact that developer mode would have needed to be enabled). And then the flood of Grandma voicemail messages would startg.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#236

Post by zaroth »

smoldesu wrote: post #207
zaroth wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just long tap and uninstall them? It’s not analogous to the Windows Start Menu showing ads you can’t turn off. What are the nags? I also don’t use Apple TV and don’t recall being nagged to use it. The only thing that annoys me is the prompt to “finish setting up” my phone when I don’t want to turn on Siri. I get the prompt a few times and then it gives up trying to get me to turn on Siri and stays happily disabled…

I mean, I can also click the little 'x' button on YouTube banner ads, but that doesn't make them any less annoying. Apple's promotion of their own services in MacOS makes it impossible to live in for me in the same way I can't browse the web without uBlock Origin. Blocking out nagware helps me focus.

I would totally agree but isn’t the uninstall a one time thing and then you never deal with again?

If Apple News keeps advertising to you after you uninstall News then Apple has overstepped and should be held to account. I don’t hold it against them showing Apple News content on the Home Screen / Notification Tray iff Apple News is actually installed.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#237

Post by dpflan »

smoldesu wrote: post #225
dpflan wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's interesting. Who are the loudest voices here? Customers of Apple or the the companies deciding to play by Apple's rules to access Apple's customer base? It's going to be a lopsided discussion on HN because of the biases of the users here versus the average non-HN member. What does the average customer want?

> Who are the loudest voices here? Customers of Apple or the the companies deciding to play by Apple's rules to access Apple's customer base? Why does it matter? It could be either of them, and the two loudest groups would be 'Apple' and 'users'. Trying to paint adversarial lines here is genuinely pointless.

The title of this post contains the words "attack" and "salvo", aren't such adversarial lines being painted?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#238

Post by juve1996 »

Daishiman wrote: post #49
jdmoreira wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Don't buy Apple. 2. What does that have to do with Spotify not wanting to pay IAP fees? 3. Should Spotify also allow you to "sideload" the mp3s you bought from bandcamp into their player?

"Don't buy Apple" is not actionable advice in a duopoly.

Sure it is. You're asking for sideloading apps. Guess what, that exists. The choice is there for what you're complaining about.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#239

Post by TeeMassive »

endisneigh wrote: post #86

Stop buying Apple if you don't like it. Seriously. At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple if they were in Apple's position. The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those, then you can be free of the duopoly. Other than using phone specific features, why can't all apps run on your desktop, laptop or elsewhere? I'll never get…

"Stop buying Apple if you don't like it"

I'm afraid this is not an option most app devs can even entertain

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#240

Post by snarkyturtle »

metiscus wrote: post #156
saurik wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big competitor to Apple is Samsung, and Samsung devices tend to be just as locked down as Apple devices (though the prevalence of jailbreaks has been higher, and of course you can sideload apps). Those two companies make up over 75% of smartphones in the US, and neither of their next competitors down (OnePlus and Lenovo) are Google. People talk about Android like it is the "do anything you want device marketed at…

I have owned many Samsung android devices over the years and have always been able to install fdroid and other alternate app stores as well as "side load" applications from apk files. Is there a new thing where Samsung have removed this feature in recent (last two years or so) devices?

yeah but you're also knowledgeable about all that shit and 99% of people with Android devices won't use alternate app stores. they'll download apps from the google play store, use google services, stream on google chromecast, watch things on youtube tv. google and/or samsung will get all that data and that's how they make money.
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