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UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

technology.berkeley.edu

21–30 of 61 posts

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think you're looking at the wrong terms of service; you're looking at their ordinary end user terms of service, not their educational terms of service. The educational terms of service, http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/terms/education_terms.htm... say: > 12.2 Limitation on Amount of Liability. NEITHER PARTY MAY BE HELD LIABLE UNDER THIS AGREEMENT FOR MORE THAN THE AMOUNT PAID BY CUSTOMER TO GOOGLE DURING THE…

I wonder if UC Berkeley is confusing "confidential obligations" with "confidential data". It doesn't seem like google is saying, "if we lose an email, and it costs you a million dollars, we're liable for it". From this section: "Confidential Information. 5.1 Obligations. Each party will: (a) protect the other party’s Confidential Information with the same standard of care it uses to protect its own Confidential Infor…

But see the definitions: "Confidential Information" means information disclosed by a party to the other party under this Agreement that is marked as confidential or would normally be considered confidential under the circumstances. Customer Data is Customer's Confidential Information.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I mean I know they are Google and all- but I can't imagine Gmail and Gcal supporting a corporate user very effectively. I use it for my personal stuff, but I am extremely appreciative of Exchange at work.

Calendar seems to have a similar featureset to that of Outlook. You can put appointments on other people's calendars and you can schedule rooms, anyway. And, at Google, the conference rooms have motion sensors that allow the room reservation system to "garbage collect" unused rooms. (You also get an LED indication of whether or not you'll be running into someone else's time if your meeting runs late. Gotta love the h…

Who makes these devices?

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#23

I think they got it wrong, Google offerings SUCK (REALLY BAD) when it comes to collaboration. In a large organization like UCB, I wonder why they don't use any collab tools? "Both Google/Microsoft offerings were NOT reviewed" "These applications were not extensively reviewed during this process, but are already used in other departments for teaching and learning purposes." "Office 365 comes with its Office online app…

Isn't this a red herring? They stated they were evaluating Email/Calendering solutions.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#24
post #8

Glad to see Cal quitting MSFT. Perhaps they're looking for a donation from Schmidt (alum). Gates hasn't given to Berkeley afaik while he has to Stanford. Yes I acknowledge this is a cynical perspective but perhaps makes sense considering public universities are so strapped for cash while privates keep on getting donations.

On the other hand, they just signed a contract providing Microsoft licenses to all the students, which is unfortunate. Earlier they did the same with Adobe. This is their solution to lowering costs--lets provide Microsoft and Adobe products to everybody! I, naturally, disapprove, but that has never mattered...

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calendar seems to have a similar featureset to that of Outlook. You can put appointments on other people's calendars and you can schedule rooms, anyway. And, at Google, the conference rooms have motion sensors that allow the room reservation system to "garbage collect" unused rooms. (You also get an LED indication of whether or not you'll be running into someone else's time if your meeting runs late. Gotta love the h…

Who makes these devices?

Googlers?

Edit: maybe that? http://code.google.com/p/radishdisplay/

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#26

I am surprised they haven't evaluated the office apps that are associated with the suits. As a long time Google Docs user, I was stunned by how superior the online version of Excel is to Google's offering.

They're not migrating the other apps. From the FAQ [1] - Q: Is Microsoft Office being replaced by Google Docs? A: No, Microsoft Office will continue to be a desktop standard at the University. ...

Nice Freudian slip, btw.

[1] https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=2980&#3...

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#27

I am surprised they haven't evaluated the office apps that are associated with the suits. As a long time Google Docs user, I was stunned by how superior the online version of Excel is to Google's offering.

For one, as I mentioned elsewhere, they have a site-wide license for actual Microsoft Office products (unfortunately). Here they were probably primarily looking to replace Calmail which is not brilliant.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#28
post #26

I am surprised they haven't evaluated the office apps that are associated with the suits. As a long time Google Docs user, I was stunned by how superior the online version of Excel is to Google's offering.

They're not migrating the other apps. From the FAQ [1] - Q: Is Microsoft Office being replaced by Google Docs? A: No, Microsoft Office will continue to be a desktop standard at the University. ... Nice Freudian slip, btw. [1] https://kb.berkeley.edu/jivekb/entry.jspa?externalID=2980&#3...

It's really unfortunate that they insist on using Microsoft office. Happily the rational departments--the ones I usually deal with :)--don't expect office docs, but I wouldn't put it past my future literature (or whatever) professors to expect them. And that would suck.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think you're looking at the wrong terms of service; you're looking at their ordinary end user terms of service, not their educational terms of service. The educational terms of service, http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/terms/education_terms.htm... say: > 12.2 Limitation on Amount of Liability. NEITHER PARTY MAY BE HELD LIABLE UNDER THIS AGREEMENT FOR MORE THAN THE AMOUNT PAID BY CUSTOMER TO GOOGLE DURING THE…

I wonder if UC Berkeley is confusing "confidential obligations" with "confidential data". It doesn't seem like google is saying, "if we lose an email, and it costs you a million dollars, we're liable for it". From this section: "Confidential Information. 5.1 Obligations. Each party will: (a) protect the other party’s Confidential Information with the same standard of care it uses to protect its own Confidential Infor…

IAAL, and I deal with this stuff all day every day. The language you quote above is a very standard mutual confidentiality provision.

You left out the definition of "Confidential Information", but I'll bet you it's along the lines of "stuff one party gives to another that by its nature and under the circumstances would reasonably be considered to be confidential in nature".

Also, unlimited liability doesn't mean an automatic jackpot for the side whose secrets were leaked. It just means that the contract doesn't impose a ceiling on how much can theoretically be recovered in a worst-case scenario.

So, what's this really all about? Theoretically speaking, the fairest contract in the universe would not include any limits on liability at all. In other words, each party would and should be fully responsible for all of the harm that it causes.

However...by convention, it's very common for Party A to shift at least some of the risk of its screw-ups onto Party B. (If I had a dime for every sales person who told me "mistakes happen", I'd have thousands of dimes.)

One popular way to shift risk is to say "I'll be responsible for harm that I cause you, but only up to $X MM".

Another popular way to shift risk is to say "I'll be responsible for harm that I cause you, but only to the extent that I was the direct, proximate cause of it". (This rather vague standard gives the lawyers plenty to fight about in court.)

Anyway, imagine you gave me an important secret on a piece of paper to hold in safe keeping for you, and you asked me not to share it with anyone. Now, imagine that I lose the paper, and someone finds it, and your secret gets out.

What are your damages in that case? Well, we know you lost a piece of paper, so it's easy to measure your "direct" loss. Will you be happy if I just give you the price of a loose sheet of paper? No! You've just been dragged through the mud because I leaked your humiliating secret to the world. You're going to want compensation for losses that can't be so directly connected to my screw-up. You're going to want to hold me accountable for harm to your reputation, lost opportunities, etc. Maybe the secret on your piece of paper was the key to your company's whole competitive advantage! Now you're going to want to hold me responsible for ruining your entire business...just because I lost a piece of paper.

But you know what? You're not wrong. It's important to make both parties liable for losses that are both directly and indirectly caused by a breach of confidentiality, because the losses associated with leaked secrets can be quite severe indeed.

* The usual disclaimers apply. IAAL, but I'm not your lawyer. Don't treat this verbose, but fatally incomplete, post on HN as legal advice. ;)

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#30

I think they got it wrong, Google offerings SUCK (REALLY BAD) when it comes to collaboration. In a large organization like UCB, I wonder why they don't use any collab tools? "Both Google/Microsoft offerings were NOT reviewed" "These applications were not extensively reviewed during this process, but are already used in other departments for teaching and learning purposes." "Office 365 comes with its Office online app…

Isn't this a red herring? They stated they were evaluating Email/Calendering solutions.

Sure. I am just frustrated with Talk/Docs. Talk, a bare minimum IM client. Docs, are we in 1999?
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