Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

ottawacitizen.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 32 posts

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#11

Post by rdl »

tolmasky wrote: post #6
droz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is laughable to think that someone who funds research should be given an award. The people doing the actual research deserve an award leaps and bounds above and beyond the one providing funding.

I don't think you need to be so antagonistic against the funders. Not to mention that there are different awards for different things. I think it would be perfectly fine (and that all the members involved would agree) if the researchers were given the Nobel prize in Biology and the funders the Peace prize.

That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date.

Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#12

Post by rdl »

baddox wrote: post #10

Why does Canada need permission from the FDA?

They want to make sure the trials are recognized by the FDA as well, so the resulting drug (if successful) can be sold in the US without repeating early stage trials.

Outsourcing clinical trials to other countries (usually India or SE Asia) is one of the biggest advances in drug development in the past 20 years.

The vaccine is also being manufactured in the US for these trials (it requires BSL3, and I don't think there's a Canadian production facility which meets that).

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#13

Post by ghshephard »

redthrowaway wrote: post #9
defen wrote: post #4

> It will test how effective the vaccine is by comparing a vaccinated and a non-vaccinated group, Kang said in the video. So I was going to ask how clinical trials for vaccines are done, and this part kind of answers it, but now I'm curious - if there's no control group that gets a placebo injection, how do you control for the fact that people may behave differently if they think they've been given an anti-HIV vaccin…

A couple things: 1) We generally know the strength of the placebo effect and the rate of HIV transmission among at-risk groups, so we can control for it, and 2) Not sure the placebo effect is particularly relevant. First, a vaccine that shows little to no benefit over the control (placebo or not) is not an effective vaccine. Second, placebos aren't effective for everything . I highly doubt the effectiveness of a plac…

The placebo effect is important because it might _increase_ rate of HIV transmission by resulting in more risky behavior. Or, it might reduce rate of HIV transmission by causing the person to focus on the possibility of infection more.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#14

Post by msbarnett »

rdl wrote: post #11
tolmasky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you need to be so antagonistic against the funders. Not to mention that there are different awards for different things. I think it would be perfectly fine (and that all the members involved would agree) if the researchers were given the Nobel prize in Biology and the funders the Peace prize.

That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date. Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder.

> That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date.

What makes you say that? Improve the human condition and eliminate much suffering, absolutely, but do much for world peace?

Has there ever been a war fought over HIV?

> Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder.

Or, we could name it after the thing it vaccinates against.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#15

Post by keithnoizu »

droz wrote: post #3
9oliYQjP wrote: post #2

Nobel peace prizes are not normally awarded to philanthropists. But I'm just going to leave this link here. It's a photo of Bill Gates with Prime Minister Stephen Harper announcing funding for HIV vaccine research in 2007. http://pm.gc.ca/grfx/news/PM-feature-20070220-Gates.jpg Source: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=1544

It is laughable to think that someone who funds research should be given an award. The people doing the actual research deserve an award leaps and bounds above and beyond the one providing funding.

Depends,

If you have a group of researchers truly dedicated to this cause that are out there working long hours and struggling to get the resources they need to solve this issue than yes they should be rewarded when their work comes to fruition.

On the flip side if you're just some lab rat making a salary and don't really care one way or another what genes you're slicing today as long as you're getting paid then what makes your contribution greater than someone that gave up a significant portion of their personal wealth to make something happen.

The real test here should be if someone has made a material contribution here because the thought it was the right thing to do.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#16

Post by schiffern »

defen wrote: post #4

> It will test how effective the vaccine is by comparing a vaccinated and a non-vaccinated group, Kang said in the video. So I was going to ask how clinical trials for vaccines are done, and this part kind of answers it, but now I'm curious - if there's no control group that gets a placebo injection, how do you control for the fact that people may behave differently if they think they've been given an anti-HIV vaccin…

They're placebo controlled. It would be a colossal waste of money to do it any other way. Besides being methodologically unsound, the trials wouldn't be recognized by the FDA or Health Canada.

The University of Rochester has also been working on HIV vaccines for many years. They're always recruiting subjects. The posters are interesting because you can see what stage this particular vaccine is at based on who they're looking for. If they're looking for married, middle-age straight non-injection-drug-users, it's safety trial. If they're looking for young single MSMs or injection drug users, then you know that vaccine has progressed to the efficacy trials.

http://www.rochestervictoryalliance.org/

The 'non-vaccinated' group he speaks of is the placebo group. The reason he mentions it 'head off' anyone assuming they would test it by exposing people to HIV.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#17

Post by NolF »

schiffern wrote: post #16
defen wrote: post #4

> It will test how effective the vaccine is by comparing a vaccinated and a non-vaccinated group, Kang said in the video. So I was going to ask how clinical trials for vaccines are done, and this part kind of answers it, but now I'm curious - if there's no control group that gets a placebo injection, how do you control for the fact that people may behave differently if they think they've been given an anti-HIV vaccin…

They're placebo controlled. It would be a colossal waste of money to do it any other way. Besides being methodologically unsound, the trials wouldn't be recognized by the FDA or Health Canada. The University of Rochester has also been working on HIV vaccines for many years. They're always recruiting subjects. The posters are interesting because you can see what stage this particular vaccine is at based on who they're…

There is no placebo group, it would be highly unethical to do so. Half the sample population gets the treatment half of it doesn't with the option to get the treatment once trial finishes. Changes in behavior due to treatment are accounted via survey pre-treatment and at measuring intervals.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#18

Post by NolF »

ghshephard wrote: post #13
redthrowaway wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple things: 1) We generally know the strength of the placebo effect and the rate of HIV transmission among at-risk groups, so we can control for it, and 2) Not sure the placebo effect is particularly relevant. First, a vaccine that shows little to no benefit over the control (placebo or not) is not an effective vaccine. Second, placebos aren't effective for everything . I highly doubt the effectiveness of a plac…

The placebo effect is important because it might _increase_ rate of HIV transmission by resulting in more risky behavior. Or, it might reduce rate of HIV transmission by causing the person to focus on the possibility of infection more.

Both vaccine and non-vaccine groups receive appropriate counselling (this part can be double blind even) regarding HIV, risk behaviors, and as a trial vaccine it might no be 100% effective etc etc... You assess the impact of behavior changes via surveys and interviews to see if there has been a significant increase in risk behavior and the control for it.

It would be unethical to give a placebo to someone for this kind of disease.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#19

Post by rdl »

msbarnett wrote: post #14
rdl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date. Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder.

> That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date. What makes you say that? Improve the human condition and eliminate much suffering, absolutely, but do much for world peace? Has there ever been a war fought over HIV? > Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder. Or, we could name it after the th…

HIV contributes to violence, civil wars, unstable governments, etc. in Africa. It's actually gotten a lot better in the past 10 years, but in the 1980s/1990s, there was a time when countries looked like they might collapse in the sub-Sahara due to high numbers of HIV/AIDS victims, orphans, etc. It was disproportionately affecting 15-35yo workers, and the fatalism caused by "will probably die from AIDS anyway" led to a lot more individual and organized violence.

Dealing with HIV, a general explosion in commodities prices, end of the Cold War, and hands-off Chinese infrastructure investment (tied to commodities, but without trying to influence the government, and thus acceptable) has gone a long way to help Africa. Urbanization, IT/Communications (and access to regional/global markets), and foreign direct investment helps a lot too.

Re: Canadians to start HIV vaccine clinical trials

#20

Post by [deleted] »

msbarnett wrote: post #14
rdl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date. Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder.

> That would be a great compromise -- an HIV vaccine would probably do more for world peace than at least half of the winners of that prize to date. What makes you say that? Improve the human condition and eliminate much suffering, absolutely, but do much for world peace? Has there ever been a war fought over HIV? > Another option would be to name the actual vaccine after the funder. Or, we could name it after the th…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN