South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets • Hacker News Board

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#141

Post by nradov » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

knaik94 wrote: post #116

nradov wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your understanding is incorrect, and not based on any actual science. Energy needs are highly correlated with body size (and other factors like activity level and genetics). There is no reason to avoid resistance training.

The few times I have tried to do intensive resistance training, above 60% of my PR, I have started feeling weak after the second or third day. I don't use caffeine for pre-workout. This might not be common, but I personally experienced a significant increase in exercise induced syncope and near-syncope when fasted. I also imagined that muscle recovery would be less efficient or take longer from a fasted state. I have…

Basal or resting metabolic rate varies tremendously between individuals, primarily based on body size. There is no scientific support for your claim of "1200 kcal is independent of height or weight".

Fortunately it's fairly cheap and easy for people in developed countries to obtain an RMR test. This can then be used as a personal baseline to calibrate diet plans.

https://www.bodyspec.com/what-is-rmr

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#142

Post by nradov » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #82

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dumb question: how easy is it for the average person to go from an “American” diet high in addictive things like bad fats, corn syrups, processed foods, etc. etc. to a “clean” 1200kcal diet? I was under the impression it was like trying to fight drug addiction and the chances of you sustaining it and not relapsing/making up the missed calories later as near impossible for most once you’ve become addicted enough to th…

Limit yourself to one meal per day; use caffeine as hunger suppression. The one meal per day limit makes it hard to over/eat.

Eating only one meal a day is not optimal from a protein standpoint. The current research indicates that at least two meals would be better.

https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#143

Post by wrycoder » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

JPLeRouzic wrote: post #132

uberduper wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? It is not true.

> It is not true. Many people experience that and scientists/doctors agree. In addition there is a risk of higher mortality. https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.000... " Many men and women in the United States diet to lose BW; however, most regain the weight they lost after the diet ends (73). Dr. Kelly D. Brownell coined the term “yo-yo dieting” to reflect BW fluctuations during repeated cycles…

Keeping the weight off requires a permanent change in diet, away from refined carbs. Especially avoid refined carbs combined with fat, e.g. corn chips along with soft drinks.

In my case, what works is a low glycemic diet.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#144

Post by wrycoder » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

chasebank wrote: post #5

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be obvious? For that matter, since I'm out of the loop, what's the mechanism for losing fat to improve insulin control?

I thought this was common knowledge. Type 2 diabetes is 100% reversible through diet.

Yes, I should have put it that way. Thanks.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#145

Post by UncleOxidant » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

browningstreet wrote: post #56

knaik94 wrote: post #20

The amount of calories per day caught my attention, 850kcal/day with diet replacement products. I understand that with medical supervision, there is less risk of malnourishment or nutrients deficiencies. The general advice, even from my primary care physician, has been that anything less than 1200kcal/day is dangerous and is crash dieting. Looking around, I found this other study studying total diet replacement provi…

David Goggins lost 100 lbs in 3 months on an 800ish calorie diet. I’m not recommending that… but what you can accomplish when you own it versus doing it for other reasons is probably significant too. Especially for when the “diet” (or whatever word is preferred, a la “intervention”) ends. I lost 60 lbs over a couple of years and set a state lifting record for my age group. I love what I do and kept the excess weight…

> David Goggins lost 100 lbs in 3 months on an 800ish calorie diet.

Losing weight that fast generally means it comes back pretty quickly as well.

> I lost 60 lbs over a couple of years

That's a much more reasonable timeframe. It's almost like we have to trick our bodies into finding a new metabolic balance. Do it too quickly and it just rebounds. Do it more slowly and it seems to be more sustainable.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#146

Post by Vt71fcAqt7 » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

JPLeRouzic wrote: post #133

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not exactly obvious, this has been known for a while now. It even became the position statement of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine to restrict calories as a way to induce remission: > Studies with therapeutic dosing typically used very low energy diets (600-1100 kcal/day) with a weighted mean remission rate of 49.4%, while studies with subtherapeutic dosing typically used more moderate caloric restri…

VLCD diet intervention is associated with improvement in glycaemia control in patients with Type 2 Diabetes. It does not mean it heals from diabetes. If fasting was a solution, Muslims would experience less diabetes. Yet the prevalence of diabetes in several countries with large Muslim populations appears to be similar to the rates observed in western countries and increasing by 10% per year as a result of urbanizati…

>It does not mean it heals from diabetes.

>>Studies with therapeutic dosing typically used very low energy diets (600-1100 kcal/day) with a weighted mean remission rate of 49.4%,

If by "heal" you mean something else that is not remission, then you should not have taken issue with "isn't that obvious" as "that" was reffering to remission.

>If fasting was a solution, Muslims would experience less diabetes.

see Table 2 of your linked study:

           type 1      type 2

Food intake

    More  206 (20.3)  2,025 (18.6) 

    Less  234 (23.1)  3,284 (30.1) 

    Same  574 (56.6)  5,594 (51.3)

Fluid intake

    More  228 (22.5)  2,210 (20.3) 

    Less  214 (21.1)  3,312 (30.4) 

    Same  573 (56.5)  5,356 (49.2)

Sugar intake

    More  237 (23.4)  2,452 (22.7) 

    Less  211 (20.8)  2,677 (24.7)
 
    Same  565 (55.8)  5,688 (52.6)

Weight changes

    No change  562 (62.5)  5,286 (54.1) 

    Gain  161 (17.9)  1,861 (19.1) 

    Loss  176 (19.6)  2,628 (26.9)

Value of weight change (kg)

    Overall population  332 (0.12 ± 3.79 )  4,367 (−0.25 ± 3.25 ) 

    Patients who fasted at least 1 day  235 (−0.51 ± 3.23 )  4,152 (−0.32 ± 3.08 ) 

    Patients who reported weight gain  159 (+3.24 ± 2.71 )  1,811 (+2.78 ± 2.49 ) 

    Patients who reported weight loss  173 (−2.74 ± 1.92 )  2,556 (2.39 ± 1.61 )

Critically, the ramadan fast is not a very low calorie diet. It isn't a diet at all. A very low calorie diet is not a fast. So your whole point is invalidated.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#147

Post by smcl » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

uberduper wrote: post #136

smcl wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point, same with Atkins, Paleo, Jordy P's "steak only" diet and the rest. Fad diets are simply what they are.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Sorry to say but you're mistaken, these are all fad diets and it's not really disputed. If you think they become elevated to something greater because of a few hangers on who haven't switched to Dr McFuck's Green Purée diet (or whatever the next one is) then you're mistaken - there are still people on Atkins, for example, a classic fad diet.

The pattern is that a miracle diet is announced that promises guaranteed results, over the course of a few years a load of people get on board, each individual loses a lot in the first few weeks but most gain it back (true for all diets). In the meantime people make bank selling courses and books and pitching it as the central component of their Success Win Lifestyle, until the next one comes along and the cycle repeats.

If one of those fad diets are working for you, great - stick with it. But don't worry, there will always be another one around the corner.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#148

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #142

mensetmanusman wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limit yourself to one meal per day; use caffeine as hunger suppression. The one meal per day limit makes it hard to over/eat.

Eating only one meal a day is not optimal from a protein standpoint. The current research indicates that at least two meals would be better. https://peterattiamd.com/donlayman/

It might not be optimal, depending on what you are optimizing for. E.g. one meal is better for daytime alertness in my case.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#149

Post by thelittleone » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #112

thelittleone wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero calories but some research suggests the sweeteners still trigger an insulin response which is relevant.

I have seen this claim many times, but have never seen a credible source claim it is conclusively known, at least at the amount of low calorie sweetener that are in 1 service if 8oz to 20oz of Diet Coke. It seems either this is extremely tricky to measure, or it is a myth (like aspartame or MSG or yellow 5 cause cancer or whatever).

Should be easy to measure now with continuous blood / sugar monitors.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#150

Post by sacnoradhq » Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 7:39 AM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #94

sacnoradhq wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence needed: define "dangerous" in terms of micromorts based on what BMR and demographics (i.e., age, BMI, FFMI, height, gender)? There are risks to ponder about how critical (e.g., time vs. dangers) it is to get to a healthy weight. If someone dangerously obese maintains hydration, electrolytes, vitamins, and enough lipids to empty the gallbladder, getting to a low adipose tissue state, resetting insulin, ghreli…

> GLP-1 agonists are expensive but interesting crutches to get there slowly. Why stop at getting rid of glucose? Add some plasma donations and orlistat. Now you've got balanced macro loss! (don't do this)

I was thinking about grafting on a rapidly-dividing, malignant neoplasm.

(I actually donate whole blood and platelets often.)

If someone were carrying around an extra 250 Mcal in adipose tissue, multiple factors determine what their risk budget could/should be to downsize to a suitable homeostatic state.