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South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

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Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#41

Post by AmericanChopper »

maximus-decimus wrote: post #34
xboxnolifes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general advice, even from my primary care physician, has been that anything less than 1200kcal/day is dangerous and is crash dieting. Wouldn't this advise need to keep in mind absolute height? BMI tracks the ratio between the height and weight, but it does nothing to tell the difference between a short thin person and a taller heavier (but same BMI) person. The latter which would need more calories than the for…

The argument I've heard is that the other nutriments needs (vitamins, minerals, etc) don't scale as much with height. So even a very short person would have a vitamins/mineral deficit on less than 1200KCal per day. How true is it? I don't know. But even then I don't see why they couldn't take multivitamins.

You can supplement all your micronutrients with barely any impact on calories consumed, so this is going to depend specifically on what you’re eating/supplementing.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#42

Post by dragontamer »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #40
maximus-decimus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument I've heard is that the other nutriments needs (vitamins, minerals, etc) don't scale as much with height. So even a very short person would have a vitamins/mineral deficit on less than 1200KCal per day. How true is it? I don't know. But even then I don't see why they couldn't take multivitamins.

Many American diets are calorie/energy rich and nutrient poor. If you're eating 400 calories of healthy food you're probably getting several times the vitamins and minerals of the average American eating 2500 of fried, sugary food. It's probably a mistake to connect the two.

Beef is very nutrient rich.

Yes, we Americans overeat beef / Hamburgers, but I don't think anyone eating burgers is at huge risk of malnutrition... as much as a risk of heart problems, diabetes, cholesterol, etc. etc.

It turns out that a standard burger with beef, ketchup, lettuce, onion, and bread covers most of your macro, and even micro-nutrients. It also is way overboard on salt and fats, but... that's not the particular problem here.

One of the bigger problems vegetarians have is finding a proper replacement of meat and all of the easy nutrients meat contains. All amino acids, various vitamins, iron, etc. etc. There's a fair amount of nutrients here.

And even the worst McDonalds burger contains a variety of lettuce / onions / ketchup that covers few nutrients that beef is missing (ex: Ketchup has Vitamin A, Potatoes / Fries has Vitamin C).

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#43

Post by carlmr »

dragontamer wrote: post #42
throwaway09223 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many American diets are calorie/energy rich and nutrient poor. If you're eating 400 calories of healthy food you're probably getting several times the vitamins and minerals of the average American eating 2500 of fried, sugary food. It's probably a mistake to connect the two.

Beef is very nutrient rich. Yes, we Americans overeat beef / Hamburgers, but I don't think anyone eating burgers is at huge risk of malnutrition... as much as a risk of heart problems, diabetes, cholesterol, etc. etc. It turns out that a standard burger with beef, ketchup, lettuce, onion, and bread covers most of your macro, and even micro-nutrients. It also is way overboard on salt and fats, but... that's not the pa…

>And even the worst McDonalds burger contains a variety of lettuce / onions / ketchup that covers few nutrients that beef is missing (ex: Ketchup has Vitamin A, Potatoes / Fries has Vitamin C).

The amount of lettuce, tomatoes and onions is so minimal I doubt it contributes to your vitamin intake in any useful manner. If you eat a salad you get 50x that amount of those vitamins.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#44

Post by JamesianP »

wincy wrote: post #27
mmmpop wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a lot of ketogenic diets when I was younger in an attempt to shed all of the weight that comes with being raised in Appalachia. It was my experience that it was a great kickstart to a weight-loss plan for someone who was at rock-bottom health and needed fast results while not feeling like you're starving. But I feel like it taught me to be bored with eating, and to establish a more healthy relationship with foo…

Well I mean it worked for me because if I eat sugar I end up consuming something on the order of 4000+ calories per day. Something about carbohydrates makes me absolutely ravenous for sugars. Also if I don’t eat right as I feel hungry I’ll feel as if someone has gut punched me. I get absurdly hungry.

Even artificial sweetener leads to craving carbs in my case.

As for the "gut punch" though, sounds like gastritis or something. Unless you're being metaphorical. For me, water helps when I'm fasting and stomach pains start.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#46

Post by matthewdgreen »

JamesianP wrote: post #44
wincy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I mean it worked for me because if I eat sugar I end up consuming something on the order of 4000+ calories per day. Something about carbohydrates makes me absolutely ravenous for sugars. Also if I don’t eat right as I feel hungry I’ll feel as if someone has gut punched me. I get absurdly hungry.

Even artificial sweetener leads to craving carbs in my case. As for the "gut punch" though, sounds like gastritis or something. Unless you're being metaphorical. For me, water helps when I'm fasting and stomach pains start.

This feeling is so intense for me that I’ve come to believe it’s something to do with the carbs and my gut microbiome changing. There’s a 1-2 week delay between changing diets and having these hunger pains start/stop that makes this feel more credible to me than insulin response changes or diet boredom. But: one should not treat N=1 subjective experiences as having any real value.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#47

Post by seltzered_ »

lhl wrote: post #6

There's a long history of studies showing Low-Calorie Diets as being effective for reversing T2D. The late Sarah Hallberg wrote a narrative review that I liked a lot a couple years back (see section 3.2 for the part on LCDs): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6520897/ Hallberg SJ, Gershuni VM, Hazbun TL, Athinarayanan SJ. Reversing Type 2 Diabetes: A Narrative Review of the Evidence. Nutrients. 2019 Apr 1;…

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#pub... "Reversing Type 2 Diabetes and ongoing remission" was in my bookmarks on this, there's a book written about it too.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#48

Post by myshpa »

Low calorie diet is not the only way how to reverse diabetes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAiXvrIMIIE Neal Barnard, MD | A Nutritional Approach for Reversing Diabetes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSwL73evUdA Diabetes Reversal and Weight-loss with Neal Barnard, M.D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRrD58Ah3Q Evidence-Based Weight Loss: Dr. Michael Greger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rNY7xKyGCQ How Not To Die : Dr. Michael Greger

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#49

Post by sacnoradhq »

knaik94 wrote: post #20

The amount of calories per day caught my attention, 850kcal/day with diet replacement products. I understand that with medical supervision, there is less risk of malnourishment or nutrients deficiencies. The general advice, even from my primary care physician, has been that anything less than 1200kcal/day is dangerous and is crash dieting. Looking around, I found this other study studying total diet replacement provi…

Evidence needed: define "dangerous" in terms of micromorts based on what BMR and demographics (i.e., age, BMI, FFMI, height, gender)?

There are risks to ponder about how critical (e.g., time vs. dangers) it is to get to a healthy weight. If someone dangerously obese maintains hydration, electrolytes, vitamins, and enough lipids to empty the gallbladder, getting to a low adipose tissue state, resetting insulin, ghrelin, and leptin sensitivities, and reducing the likelier risks of cancer(s) seems like a good tradeoff than either lap-band surgery or slow/plateau weight reductions.

Intense hunger goes away after about 72-80 hours of "starvation", however brain fog and low energy dominate. Careful "starvation" dieting down to slightly underweight isn't something one can do without several months of spare time, ready access to healthcare, and immense self-control. Afterwards, self-control is absolutely required to avoid binge cycles.

GLP-1 agonists are expensive but interesting crutches to get there slowly.

It is likely that over millions of years of natural selection, the human body is far more tolerant of borderline starvation conditions than being stuffed with HFCS. Many types of cancers associated with Western diets are likely due to the human body becoming more hospitable, whereas chemotherapy and starvation add cellular stress that kills off malfunctioning cells. It's likely no accident whereas CHD, gout, diabetes, high cholesterol, and cancers are the consequent of unnatural diets and lifestyles.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#50

Post by knaik94 »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #33
knaik94 wrote: post #20

The amount of calories per day caught my attention, 850kcal/day with diet replacement products. I understand that with medical supervision, there is less risk of malnourishment or nutrients deficiencies. The general advice, even from my primary care physician, has been that anything less than 1200kcal/day is dangerous and is crash dieting. Looking around, I found this other study studying total diet replacement provi…

> The general advice, even from my primary care physician, has been that anything less than 1200kcal/day is dangerous and is crash dieting. Wouldn't this advise need to keep in mind absolute height? BMI tracks the ratio between the height and weight, but it does nothing to tell the difference between a short thin person and a taller heavier (but same BMI) person. The latter which would need more calories than the for…

My understanding is that 1200 kcal is independent of height or weight. I was told that the rough calculation was based on the lower estimate of basal metabolic rate and then subtracting a couple hundred kcal.

We both come from a South Asian background and discussed how the number would change for a home cooked vegetarian diet which is more nutrient dense but low in protein, and I was told that would lower it below 1200, but he didn't feel comfortable recommending that diet unsupervised. He emphasized that I should decrease calories by removing carbs, then fats, then proteins. And that I should prioritize eating proteins above fats and carbs, especially if I planned on increasing the amount of exercise I did.

I asked him if the 1200kcal was net or gross. For example if I did 2 hours of moderate exercise, should I eat back 400kcal+ to maintain a net 1200kcal. He didn't have an answer for me, other than saying, if I start to feel weak or lightheaded I should immediately stop exercising. I don't have pre-existing conditions related to blood glucose, but I imagine that would would change many of these guidelines. I was told to stay mindful of hydration.

The stories I hear of fasted work outs is the reason I asked him about low calorie diets. My non professional intuition makes me believe that even intense cardio should be okay, but moderate or heavy resistance training should be avoided on a low calorie diet.

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