China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup • Hacker News Board

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#211

Post by dreckigeZecke » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #181

dreckigeZecke wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> stop spreading communist propaganda. Most of the deaths are among the vaccinated now. Oh, the first fellow German troll I got on this site. Fun times. > As a result of its policy over 10 people just got burned alive in their own home. Rest assured I have no love left for the CCP (or, in case it matters, Russia). New Zealand has proven that one can do a sensible zero-covid approach without resorting to atrocities.

There is no "sensible zero covid approach". Only you and Xi Jinping think this is possible and we clearly see the results.

At this point it is best for zero covid proponents to remove themselves from society. You are free to live your antisocial freak life by yourself.

>Oh, the first fellow German troll I got on this site. Fun times.

???

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#212

Post by Altho00 » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #180

Altho00 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with no deep knowledge in virology, epidemiology or even biology, I tend to agree with you. However I also understand how having the virus originating from China , maybe, or maybe not, from a lab leak, and having china so hell bent on a 0 covid policy going so far as boarding and ceiling the doors of appartment buildings might be frightening even if the virus has been well studied. Let's say you're the hea…

That is quite a terrible analogy. In the real world, one can logically guess why the CCP's acting "weird" (general political cluelessness, wanting to save face), but in your analogy there are not a lot of other possible explanations to the weird behaviors. God, the last few days HN has disappointed me more and more...

Sorry to hear that I disappointed you.

That being said I disagree. the CCP going as far as chaining/nailing doors seems more than excessive (remember that officially there has been about 5000 deaths from covid in China) and not as esaily explainable as you suggest.

The explanations you give make sense but they wouldn't be unique to China. A lot of authoriatian countries share the same concerns and want to show they have things under control and to save face. Yet no other country went as far as china did. When you add together the fact that the virus originated from China, that a lab leak can't be completely excluded and that there response to it is unique and seems irrational , I can't blame people for having a bad gut feeling about it. It doesn't mean that the suspicions of the people that find it fishy are founded, just that them feeling that way is somewhat understandable.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#213

Post by KoftaBob » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

laputan_machine wrote: post #32

hanoz wrote: post #19

What is going on with China's continuing zero-covid policy? Either it's the most expensive face saving exercise the world has ever seen, or they know something about it that we don't.

Quoted post unavailable.

It seems the simpler and more likely explanation is that they're using "Covid Zero" restrictions as an excuse to control the movement of citizens, which they want to do in order to suppress protests related to their economic downturn.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#214

Post by KoftaBob » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

It seems the simplest and most likely explanation is that they're using "Covid Zero" restrictions as an excuse to control the movement of citizens, which they want to do in order to suppress protests related to economic downturn, real estate market troubles, etc.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#215

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #167

Fragoel2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whole lot of covid outbreaks in China have been blamed on "contaminated goods" coming from abroad

Full circle to 2020 when people were avoiding boxes from China like the plague.

> like the plague

This is the closest to the literal use of this phrase we've had in over a century.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#216

Post by usrusr » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

DriftRegion wrote: post #143

Yeah. When people in mainland China saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation. I'll summarize the ideas I've seen floating around the Chinese internet: - It's a money-making scam by the COVID test manufacturers - It's a money-making scam by the temporary quarantine center manufacturers - It's a failure of bureaucracy ”层层加码” - It's a ploy to increase the depth of state surveillance…

From my uninformed outside perspective the explanation is so much simpler: decisionmaking structures of the organization in charge are failing to facilitate an overdue strategy switch. They had the best possible approach back when vaccines were a few months out and the strains in circulation were still easy to contain (much easier than the current ones), but now they keep trying to repeat that triumph, and because questioning that approach back then was bad (as evidenced by past successes) there's still no questioning now. But circumstances have changed, a lot, and the same structures that seemed surprisingly competent working on a blank slate (after merely a few days of trying to silence that ophthalmologist, I believe that this part of history was greatly exaggerated in western media) are now completely falling to adapt, because now there's an established party line and we I the hypothetical scenario that everyone knew that it was outdated, nobody would question it, more reward in feigning support.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#217

Post by tlogan » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #200

throwoutway wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Wants an early end”? That must be propaganda because it should be obvious to a lay person that it started in late 2019. China government has been trying for 3 years to “have an early end”

That could just be due to a failing strategy. China always tried to completely contain and destroy the virus, and had good success with that early on. Many other countries instead went with "let it spread at a rate our health care system can handle". China's approach had a better chance at bringing it to a fast end early on, but with greater risk if it doesn't end quickly. Now that it is a multi-year affair, they hav…

> switching tactics would be an

> admission of failure,

I think you are wrong here. This is not how dictatorship works. In proper dictatorship one can easily change the narrative.

I assume there is something deeper that this: power struggle so no decisions can be made.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#218

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

c-fe wrote: post #160

andsoitis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> know more about the consequences of this virus Than all the other medical and scientific communities in the rest of the world?

the developers of a software know more about its behaviour than all users/hackers in the world

This is why software is famously vulnerability free. Really, software devs only know what the software should probably do and which bugs they run into regularly.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#219

Post by mumblemumble » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #186

DriftRegion wrote: post #143

Yeah. When people in mainland China saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation. I'll summarize the ideas I've seen floating around the Chinese internet: - It's a money-making scam by the COVID test manufacturers - It's a money-making scam by the temporary quarantine center manufacturers - It's a failure of bureaucracy ”层层加码” - It's a ploy to increase the depth of state surveillance…

> It's to mitigate war with the United States. Apparently the Geneva convention has a clause against going to war with a nation stricken by a pandemic. It is a sort of funny conclusion to end up at — the US wants to have a war with China, but is stopped by the Geneva convention. I thought they didn’t have as effective vaccines as we’ve got in the west (on top of the general, uh, hands-off approach western counties te…

I would guess the real reason the US won't ever willingly go to war with China, not even under the most fantastic of hypothetical scenarios, has a lot more to do with a combination of the anticipated importance of tech in a modern war between major powers, and the USA's near-complete lack of domestic electronics manufacturing infrastructure.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#220

Post by apostacy » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #205

DriftRegion wrote: post #143

Yeah. When people in mainland China saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation. I'll summarize the ideas I've seen floating around the Chinese internet: - It's a money-making scam by the COVID test manufacturers - It's a money-making scam by the temporary quarantine center manufacturers - It's a failure of bureaucracy ”层层加码” - It's a ploy to increase the depth of state surveillance…

This might be a Ceausescu moment for Xi. I just do not understand why he did not “declare that China won against COVID and how CCP is great”. (If there is a problem with vaccination rates, the CCP has tools to make that happen. Yes Sinovax vaccine is not very effective but with 3 doses it will cut death rates by 90% or so.) So the question here is really why Xi decided to keep zero-COVID. Maybe he is not so smart? Or…

It is obvious at this point that China's "zero covid" policy has nothing at all to do with public health.

What many of us do not want to admit, is that our leaders have taken advantage of the crisis for their own benefit. I think most western media is reluctant to report on what is happening in China, because it would start uncomfortable conversations at home.

Seeing the Chinese government so nakedly use what's left of the pandemic to oppress their population is very problematic to our pandemic narrative. People might start to ask if perhaps their governments too have been doing that too.

The official narrative in the west has been that anything the government does to us in the name of protecting us from COVID is always correct and anyone who criticizes it is an evil "anti-vax" lunatic.