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China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

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Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#131

Post by mschuster91 »

paul_f wrote: post #118
mschuster91 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even without vaccines, the current covid strain is not even that harmful. Among the unvaccinated (of which there still exist a shocking amount), it absolutely is harmful. Even amongst the triple or quadruple vaccinated, it can be dangerous. My s/o's sense of smell was impacted for months, we were out of work for two weeks - but a friend of ours for six months and she's still not at the performance mentally that she…

This is nonsense. Omicron is quite mild compared to the original strain. Death rates from COVID in western countries is now minimal. Time to move on

Death is not the only metric that has an economic impact, that is the point.

Yes, COVID is by far less deadly now than it was in the beginning, thanks to vaccines, medication and treatment knowledge. Nevertheless: When hundreds of thousands of people, especially in industries that make close contact with random people necessary such as healthcare, hospitality and public transport, get sick for weeks, the economy still suffers.

Or, to use a pun I'd hoped to be able to avoid, but the opportunity is too good: How can we move on from the pandemic when public transport literally [1] doesn't move? How are people supposed to go to work when entire train grid cells are not working because the signalling controllers all have COVID?

[1] https://www.hessenschau.de/wirtschaft/corona-und-stellenabba...

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#132

Post by mrtksn »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #116
agumonkey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stumped they didn't consider buying other vaccines. Maybe they don't want to be reliant on the west. They're indeed doing a mistake keep the lock strategy...

They have enough vaccines, they just can't persuade their vulnerable population to take it. Old people in particular don't trust modern medicine and don't trust the government. You know how some old people believe all sorts of conspiracy theories about the government? Because their government was actually evil during their lifetime, it becomes much harder for them to believe that this one time the government really d…

Would't an actual evil government simply let the old population die and solve the demographics crisis? It's not like they depend on old peoples votes to stay in power.

I have relatives in Bulgaria, a country with full access to all western vaccines thanks to EU but is among the least vaccinated countries in the world and among the top deaths of COVID-19 per capita.

I was shocked when I visited Bulgaria once travel become possible. Everyone knew someone dead but they also were telling stories about this one person who went to get a vaccine and their veins turned blue and died shaking. People in villages were tellings tories how Bill Gates will monitor them or that the virus and the younger ones were saying that the vaccines are a sham and the governments orchestrated it to reduce the population(Bulgaria is also a top country in population decline, the government and EU are actually trying very hard to increase the population).

When people want to believe things, they believe things.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#133

Post by dreckigeZecke »

mschuster91 wrote: post #49
i67vw3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without vaccines, the current covid strain is not even that harmful. If they had done complete lockdown during 1st wave or during Delta wave it was one thing (which they already did at that time and majority of world). But after 2 years it is something else. There literally is a world cup happening half around the world, with maskless people and stadiums filled to the brim. I have read online they are doing this…

> Even without vaccines, the current covid strain is not even that harmful. Among the unvaccinated (of which there still exist a shocking amount), it absolutely is harmful. Even amongst the triple or quadruple vaccinated, it can be dangerous. My s/o's sense of smell was impacted for months, we were out of work for two weeks - but a friend of ours for six months and she's still not at the performance mentally that she…

[flagged]

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#135

Post by Filligree »

yreg wrote: post #99
laputan_machine wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The CCP have been routinely supressing any hypothesis on COVID-19 being a lab-borne virus. - The CCP have been stoic on their approach to zero-COVID - IF the virus was lab-borne, and IF the CCP know it was, is it not (very, very remotely) possible they know more about the consequences of this virus? That line of reasoning is pretty conspiratorial, but given that the CCP have been incredibly cagey about the whole af…

Their behaviour is not that weird for an authoritarian regime and easily explainable without this theory imo. (As you say as well.) What would be an example of a piece of knowledge which they could have about the virus and which would warrant (in our eyes if we knew) 0 covid policy forever? Maybe I lack the imagination. Edit: Please don't downvote replies to this comment with fabricated not-real scenarios. That's exa…

“99% lethality at five years” is something you could conceivably engineer.

I find this extremely unlikely, but that’s the sort of thinking being pointed at.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#136

Post by leoedin »

ejstronge wrote: post #92
jahnu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that; hazard ratio increases significantly with each re-infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3

> It's even worse than that; hazard ratio increases significantly with each re-infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3 I don’t think this paper is a great source for that idea - the ratio of people with one infection (440,000) to people with three or more infections (1,000) is so different that I wonder if demographics or behavioral characteristics differ between the groups. Empirically, their co…

I think most people I know have had it at least twice now - if symptoms were escalating with each infection it would be pretty big news.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#137

Post by jtc331 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #34
bananapear wrote: post #14

What is the CCP’s exit strategy? Could they feasibly claim to have eradicated covid?

> What is the CCP’s exit strategy? For a long time, a combination of lockdowns and mass vaccination to keep the virus at bay at home and hope that the West would follow suit out of its own interests - which did work reasonably well for a long time in China, but collapsed with Omicron as Sinovac and the other domestic vaccines were/are ineffective against it and its sub-lines and they had gone all-in way too early in…

Strict isolation and border closing can work if you catch it before community spread. The cases cited of this working (NZ, AU) are notably already geographically isolated and also were in the summer season when mass spread elsewhere began; it’s not at all obvious that strategy could have applied with the same effect in the northern hemisphere at the same time.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#138

Post by progrus »

zarzavat wrote: post #105
yreg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that once they lift it up / fail to contain an outbreak, it will be a devastating one since their population isn't immunized.

I don’t buy that. No other country was able to completely arrest the spread of COVID through lockdowns, even Australia and New Zealand which are islands surrounded by giant oceans were not able to stop the flood of infections. China borders 14 countries. If there’s “no COVID” it’s because it’s being suppressed, with or without Beijing’s knowledge.

Consider what happens to peoples’ immune systems when you box them up in quarantine and spray them with disinfectant every day for a few years.

It won’t be only COVID-19 popping when that artificial suppression ends. RSV, influenza, etc.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#139

Post by Silverback_VII »

pjc50 wrote: post #91
Silverback_VII wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> the vax has rendered herd immunity impossible. This doesn't make any sense; the vaccine confers immunity.

>This doesn't make any sense; the vaccine confers immunity.

Obviously not look at the virus particles in wastewater (Netherlands) for example : https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/rioolwater

The Virus seems to stick around in countries with high vax rates and to disappear in countries with very low rates.

Additionally the immune systems of vaccinated individuals display strange behaviour toward tolerating the virus as you can read in the following study:

"the described class switch towards non-inflammatory IgG isotypes, which otherwise rarely occurs after vaccination or viral infection, may have consequences for the choice and timing of vaccination regimens using mRNA vaccines."

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.05.22277189v....

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#140

Post by rippercushions »

slig wrote: post #87
rippercushions wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has a 87% COVID vaccination rate, which is higher than the US (79%). However, the Chinese-made vaccines are not very effective, and many of the unvaccinated are elderly. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1279024/china-coronaviru... vaccination-rate/

They also have "only" 30k official deaths.

We can probably add a zero to that number, but it's quite clear that unlike literally every other big country in the world, China has not gone through a major wave of nationwide infection that would lead to considerable fatalities... yet.
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