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Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

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Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#191

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

hilbert42 wrote: post #147
moffkalast wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network. It's on the specific company then to provide adequate QA for their firmware before they release updates, or it reflects badly on them. This fiasco for example, tells me to never buy a Google phone since they apparently don't test their devices properly. I'm not sure why it would be on the network to test devic…

"The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network." Perhaps so in the current circumstances, but ultimately it is the responsibly of the regulators to ensure the emergency numbers work. As witnessed here, a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Unfortunately, the c…

> a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers.

Speaking for myself at least, I can tell you that it's not so much that I forgot as that I don't care and also you're wrong. Yes, it's good - perhaps even important - that the computer I carry in my pocket every day can also theoretically make phone calls, but it is most certainly first and foremost a computer.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#192

Post by jpollock »

alistairSH wrote: post #150
crooked-v wrote: post #30

This article, dating back to January, lays it out pretty clearly: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-fixes-nightma... > If you're logged out, launching Microsoft Teams 10 times will result in 10 duplicate PhoneAccounts from Teams clogging your phone. Teams shouldn't do this, and Microsoft's update stopped Teams from doing this, but a bunch of duplicate PhoneAccounts also shouldn't be enough to bring Andro…

And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? Something critical like 911 should have one handler. Heck, I’d argue the phone system shouldn’t be allowed to be overloaded by a 3rd party at all. That just sounds like a bowl of buggy spaghetti.

Probably related to [1]:

"The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide emergency service personnel with a 911 caller's call-back number and, in most cases, location information.

To reduce possible risks to public safety, the FCC requires interconnected VoIP providers to:

- Automatically provide 911 service to all customers as a standard, mandatory feature. VoIP providers may not allow customers to "opt-out" of 911 service. "

Can Teams make phone calls?

[1] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#193

Post by toast0 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #168
AstralStorm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally phone manufacturers certify that this works against an operator test suite on simulator hardware, I believe. Cannot have FCC etc. uncertified phone connect to normal networks - that would be a mess.

Happens all the time with roaming and imported devices. I’m not aware of any western provider saying “oh, that block of IMEIs aren’t allowed to connect to the network”. Canadian government shadow-banned sales of a bunch of Xiaomi cell phones, but local providers have no issues authing them onto the network. Can’t say no to that juicy roaming revenue even if it means putting your network at risk. https://news.ycombina…

US networks get cagey about certain phones. CDMA carriers were always restricive, but now that 2g and 3g are mostly shut down, they don't want to allow registration of LTE devices that don't do Voice over LTE with their network because it breaks the emergency service rules.

I don't think they'd block them from roaming if the device has a foreign network sim that's authorized to roam though. Of course, major US carriers basically don't allow their subscribers to roam to other major carriers.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#194

Post by alistairSH »

jpollock wrote: post #192
alistairSH wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? Something critical like 911 should have one handler. Heck, I’d argue the phone system shouldn’t be allowed to be overloaded by a 3rd party at all. That just sounds like a bowl of buggy spaghetti.

Probably related to [1]: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide emergency service personnel with a 911 caller's call-back number and, in most cases, location information. To reduce possible risks to public safety, the FCC requires interconnected VoIP providers…

From a user perspective, I think I’d expect one of two things on a cell-phone… - Teams (or other 3rd party) isn’t allowed to make telephone calls. The phone provides this service. Teams can continue making voice “calls” to other Teams users, it just can’t initiate telephone calls via PSTN.

- Teams (or other 3rd party) is allowed to take over calling duties from base software. But, only one call handling system can be active at a time.

Personally, I’m not sure why I’d want multiple handlers, or even a single alternate handler, so I’d pick the first option. If I’m missing a common use case, I’d like to hear it.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#195

Post by giantrobot »

dr_hooo wrote: post #114
Thaxll wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why people keep saying 1B+, 1T+ compagny, if you don't want bugs don't use software, the size of the compagny does not matter.

Of course it matters, why such a black and white statement? The assumption is that a well funded company should be able to finance a quality assurance team which fixes bugs the developers create

Market cap is not revenue. While Google and Microsoft do have a lot of revenue, saying "trillion dollar company" is a tacit suggestion they're sitting on a trillion dollar dragon hoard.

Their profitability compared to profits is a more logically consistent comparison. If they recognize a billion dollars in profit while shipping brain dead bugs it goes to demonstrate their lack of respect for customers.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#196

Post by trasz2 »

edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

The problem with operators is not only that they often delayed fixing critical bugs for no good reason; they also liked to add maliceware. I remember a Nokia phone with one key dedicated to trick users into starting it by accident, which of course was billed.

Apple preventing network operators from breaking their software on purpose was a huge step forward.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#197

Post by fbdab103 »

theCrowing wrote: post #33

Ah yes... the yearly pixel/nexus emergency call bug. I would say it's a total shame for Google that they really have repeating probably life threatening bugs in their phones but they don't seem to care at all.

I was a lifelong Android user, but after I heard about this, I purchased my first iPhone this year. Completely absurd that Google refuses to prioritize safety. While I am mad the bug happened (there should be a dedicated test suite for safety features) - I am furious that there is no stop-the-world escalation to get the problem resolved.

I hate so much about the Apple ecosystem, but screw Google. If it is not a KPI product promotion package, evidently it is not worth the time.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#200

Post by nixgeek »

edent wrote: post #45
moffkalast wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network. It's on the specific company then to provide adequate QA for their firmware before they release updates, or it reflects badly on them. This fiasco for example, tells me to never buy a Google phone since they apparently don't test their devices properly. I'm not sure why it would be on the network to test devic…

Most people buy their phone from a network provider / carrier. And when someone goes wrong, customers complain to the network - not the manufacturer. That's why networks test firmware. Because they face the complaints and chargebacks when the phone breaks. Mobile networks are, in effect, private networks. Your employer may prohibit certain devices from connecting to their in-office LAN. Or they may insist on specific…

I’m not sure this isn’t a dated take, unfortunately. Perhaps this would have been an accurate set of statements back in 2012 or so.

1/ Roaming is a big factor (before COVID, and now in a post-COVID world too). I’ve spent more time on carrier networks which are NOT my ‘home network’ in the past 3-4 weeks than not, in many different countries, managed by many different regulators. I didn’t need a new phone for each country, a software update for my phone, instead it just worked.

2/ I’m not unique in buying devices from the manufacturer directly - specifically, I use the iPhone Upgrade Program. Lots of friends buy direct from Apple or via electronics stores like Best Buy but every 2-3 years. I hear very few people who “got their phone from Verizon” (but I’m sure this still happens, too!). [1]

3/ At least in the Apple ecosystem these days theft and loss is handled with Activation Lock, which is IMO more effective than IMEI blocking because it works regardless of cellular network and without relying on any assumptions networks may share a blocklist of reported stolen IMEIs amongst themselves.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/29/iphone-upgrade-program-popula...

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