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Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

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Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#161

Post by wpietri »

hilbert42 wrote: post #147
moffkalast wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network. It's on the specific company then to provide adequate QA for their firmware before they release updates, or it reflects badly on them. This fiasco for example, tells me to never buy a Google phone since they apparently don't test their devices properly. I'm not sure why it would be on the network to test devic…

"The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network." Perhaps so in the current circumstances, but ultimately it is the responsibly of the regulators to ensure the emergency numbers work. As witnessed here, a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Unfortunately, the c…

> their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers

I don't think that's true. A few years back when I was comparing phones, many reviews don't even mention how good they are at making calls. Both Millennials and Gen Z are notably phone-averse. [1][2] I think a modern smartphone is a portable network computer/camera/sensor-package, with the telephone bit being something like the human appendix.

As somebody in Gen X, it looks to me like the whole notion of "phone call" is a dying concept that only existed due to the technological limitations during the period 1880-2000. Think of it sort of like faxing: it made sense at the time.

[1] https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/why-millennials-ignore-calls

[2] https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/health-and-wellness/call-de...

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#162

Post by Scoundreller »

tlb wrote: post #81
ilyt wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, shouldn't be something like FCC certifying emission levels not some random mobile network operator ? Or at least company run by them as to not have to repeat test same thing over and over again ?

Emission levels are complicated. There isn't a particular threshold they have to be under. Rather, phones negotiate with the tower to use the minimum power needed to get their signal through, depending on their distance from the tower and other factors. Using lower power means less interference with other phones as well as increased battery life and less RF absorption by the user's head. This negotiation has a lot of…

Also phones (and towers?) in border areas have some logic to avoid roaming onto the other country’s network.

This leads to lots of misconceptions too.

With a local Rogers SIM from a high building in Toronto, my phone will only see Canadian networks on a network scan. But when I put in an EU SIM, same phone and same place, a network scan will see several US networks and even prefer connecting to them (probably cheaper roaming rates), even if the connection is ultra-weak.

Feels like there’s some geo-fencing preferencing, or maybe time-distance bounding going on.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#163

Post by dcow »

edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

And I hope we never go back. That phase of mobile phone history was unbearable and carriers insufferable. If issues are slipping through, it’s manufacturers who should be held to account for their faulty devices. And if faulty firmware/software is a persistent problem, then society should step in and regulate.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#164

Post by tlb »

AstralStorm wrote: post #129
tlb wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emission levels are complicated. There isn't a particular threshold they have to be under. Rather, phones negotiate with the tower to use the minimum power needed to get their signal through, depending on their distance from the tower and other factors. Using lower power means less interference with other phones as well as increased battery life and less RF absorption by the user's head. This negotiation has a lot of…

Under 1.2 W/kg in 10g of tissue ICNIRP is the international standard. India has its own in 1g of tissue but I don't know the threshold value off the top of my head.

Modern phones don't even get close to that limit at full power. Still, it seems prudent to minimize transmit power for safety.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#165

Post by komali2 »

mixedCase wrote: post #118
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could the regulators possibly improve this situation?

Banning the product and forcing the manufacturer to pay damages to every single person they sold that garbage to, for example.

I would love this, though there's very few entities in the world that seem to have this level of sovereign power - most regulatory agencies / governments don't seem to have the political will, drive, ambition, or simply ability to do something like this.

Let's say for the USA, the chair of the FCC (hahahahahahahahaahah) decided to do this, could they even? Isn't power dispersed enough to make this impossible? (immediately challenged by courts, or, unable to determine which regulatory agency in USA actually has authority to do this, etc?) Or say an American state, perhaps Texas, decides to protect its citizens by threatening to ban sales of google phones if they don't fix this bug tomorrow, and force a recall, would that be possible? I mean... via what mechanism could that even happen? A governor executive order immediately challenged by a local court or even the USA federal government? A state law, that gets vetoed? Etc.

This leaving aside the fact that Google can just do fat campaign donations to whoever can throw a monkeywrench into this kind of consumer protection action.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#167

Post by bogwog »

Marsymars wrote: post #146
macintux wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Microsoft has a penchant for hiring people passionate about hating the world that would explain a lot of their software over the years.

If MS software is the worst software you’ve used, you’re living a pretty good life. There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX.

> There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX.

Those (probably) aren’t trillion dollar businesses.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#168

Post by Scoundreller »

AstralStorm wrote: post #130
d12bb wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience sitting in on 112 dispatchers as part of my EMS training was different. Multiple times per shift a caller would just start the conversation with something like “This is no emergency, I'm an employee of Vodafone/T-Mobile/etc and have to test 112”. Only network operators calling this way though, no phone manufacturers.

Normally phone manufacturers certify that this works against an operator test suite on simulator hardware, I believe. Cannot have FCC etc. uncertified phone connect to normal networks - that would be a mess.

Happens all the time with roaming and imported devices.

I’m not aware of any western provider saying “oh, that block of IMEIs aren’t allowed to connect to the network”.

Canadian government shadow-banned sales of a bunch of Xiaomi cell phones, but local providers have no issues authing them onto the network. Can’t say no to that juicy roaming revenue even if it means putting your network at risk.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28620359

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#169

Post by 90d »

dcow wrote: post #163
edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

And I hope we never go back. That phase of mobile phone history was unbearable and carriers insufferable. If issues are slipping through, it’s manufacturers who should be held to account for their faulty devices. And if faulty firmware/software is a persistent problem, then society should step in and regulate.

Wouldn't that regulation seem exactly like "going back" to most people?

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#170

Post by ChoHag »

cube00 wrote: post #160
CydeWeys wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. "No comment" is always what a company says in a situation like this, where saying anything else might hurt them in a future lawsuit. It doesn't mean they don't care, it means they have lawyers with the bare minimum level of competency.

I've seen statements that at least pretend like the company cares and the steps they are taking to deal with the issue. Something along the lines of "the safety of our users is our highest priority and we are investigating these reports", no admissions, no legal risk, but they couldn't even do that much.

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