Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan • Hacker News Board

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#171

Post by jakelazaroff » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:05 AM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #90

jakelazaroff wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So again, if let’s say a waiter assaults their manager who isn’t covering the difference between their tips and minimum wage, that would be allowed? What if I slash the tires of an illegally parked car with an expired police placard?

The bizarre examples you keep bringing up are retaliatory actions, not preventative ones. These are punishments after the fact. Nobody is suggesting to allow people to go around exacting punishment . We are suggesting to allow people to defend self, family, and property. Assaulting the manager would not be allowed because it has nothing to do with physically preventing the crime from being carried out. Same with slas…

> These are punishments after the fact. Nobody is suggesting to allow people to go around exacting punishment. We are suggesting to allow people to defend self, family, and property.

No, I’m describing crimes in progress. If a waiter confronts their manager while they’re they’re paycheck, that isn’t a “punishment after the fact”. They are defending their property by using violence to prevent wage theft from being carried out, in exactly the same way you’re suggesting shopowners be allowed to.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#172

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:05 AM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #131

timakro wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon makes it easy to sell especially with FBA. That's as much a good thing as it can be misused. It allows new businesses to get started when they cannot afford to handle shipping to customers themselves.

What’s a new company doing selling old spice deodorant? What possible legitimate angle could it have?

[deleted]

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#173

Post by nuclearnice3 » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:09 AM UTC

z9znz wrote: post #154

somberi wrote: post #106

It just so happened my wife and I were in a CVS (a US pharmacy chain) on the Upper East Side of Manhattan (think pooches inside Gucci bags), and I wanted to get a Deodorant. We had to call the staff to unlock small pigeon hole after another just to see what was written on the labels. As always it is not just one thing - the lady that came to help us was in a Hijab and was studying medicine and was helping her parents…

Maybe I'm not putting all the pieces together correctly. What is the significance of her wearing a hijab? Why is that worthy of mention, or the fact that the owner family was from Turkey? And also the Thanksgiving eve bit?

They are just details. Let them echo around in your head as you like.

Maybe she's from a conservative part of the world that doesn't have too many woman turning out as doctors. Maybe supporting her family of immigrants, who might not have a ton of money and are dealing with some of the hard things that being new in a strange country brings. Maybe in the deep background you can sense an unhappy reason they left Turkey in the first place. And all this taking place on a holiday eve when she and your narrator would rather be home with a hot tea and a book. She's a fighter, up against long odds, having overcome some adversity to get here. I don't mind a short wait.

Or maybe something totally different.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#174

Post by Gigachad » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:09 AM UTC

somesortofthing wrote: post #48

MichaelCollins wrote: post #33

> "The stores are insured bro, why do you care if people steal from them? It's not your problem maaan." This is why I care. Criminals degrade society and we all suffer for their greed.

If you want law enforcement to deal with petty crimes, you're going to have to contend with the externalities of cops operating anywhere. How many bystanders and innocent people reported by paranoid suburbanites are you willing to see injured or killed to protect that deodorant shelf?

Car culture has done this. The destruction of regular meeting places that get you to know and trust your neighbours. Now everyone you see is an untrusted stranger.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#175

Post by bityard » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:09 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #69

MichaelCollins wrote: post #33

> "The stores are insured bro, why do you care if people steal from them? It's not your problem maaan." This is why I care. Criminals degrade society and we all suffer for their greed.

That’s one perspective. Another is that the truly greedy thing is to construct a society such that some people can’t afford basic necessities, and that inflicts far more suffering than people stealing what they need to live.

Ah, the old "two wrongs make a right" defense

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#176

Post by Sabinus » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:10 AM UTC

google234123 wrote: post #160

rtpg wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bankers can get away with treble damages, then maybe shoplifters should to. Even if you are super cynical, throwing a shoplifter in jail accomplishes what? If they have a job, they'll lose their job. If they have a home, they'll probably get evicted. They'll have to go through a court system that has to deal with this. People will have to do a bunch of work to move this person through the system. And at the end of…

If they lose their house good, that means non-criminals will have the chance to buy a home.

Remember you still need to live in a society with the guy who just lost his house. The guy that now has nothing to lose.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#177

Post by el_nahual » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:11 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

To further underline your point, if the chain is (thief)→(amazon)→(end user) then the fence isn't "anyone with an Amazon" account: the fence is amazon.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#178

Post by thewebcount » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:11 AM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #118

Piggybacking on this thread, is stealing a common thing across the whole of the US or is it restricted to some areas? I keep getting asked how people in n San Francisco are living with crime so rampant and they send a video of gangs stealing from a store/mall.

It’s very much specific to particular areas. In Los Angeles, a CVS or RiteAid in a less well-off area will have things behind plexiglass. The same store just outside Pepperdine (a very expensive university in the very wealthy Malibu area) has the same things and more expensive stuff just available on the shelves without restriction.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#179

Post by partiallypro » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

This is such a big nationwide problem that Target actually mentioned it during their earnings report (this is stated in the article.) Some states/cities have made it near impossible to prosecute these people, so the risk/reward is very favorable to stealing and reselling. Some stores have even closed down in certain areas because of it. When we talk about "food deserts" in some cities, it could one day be we have massive deserts of no retailers at all, and it will largely be a government policy failure.

The videos of organized ransacking of stores are honestly insane. The stores are somewhat powerless because of liability, and the new laws that have raised the level in which the law even cares. I don't think the "broken window" policy is the end-all, it has some problems but allowing "small" theft rings does not generally put areas on a good trajectory. These goods are almost always getting 3rd party listed, be it Amazon, eBay, Facebook Marketplace, etc.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#180

Post by ryan_lane » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

subradios wrote: post #163

mbreese wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tackle a problem from multiple directions. So while direct prosecution is important, cutting off a method for converting stolen goods to money is also important. As soon as that method become unprofitable, the activity will either stop or switch to something else.

Regulating legitimate business activity out of existence to support progressive prosecutors ideas about shoplifting and street crime is the opposite of a solution.

Knowing your suppliers and that their goods are legitimate is a pretty basic function of a business, and calling people progressive to enforce that is a bit strange.

Amazon isn't a pawn shop. They have a lot of choice when it comes to dealing with known businesses.