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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#111

Post by mancerayder »

nkrisc wrote: post #76
mancerayder wrote: post #72

What's amazing is how no one is honing in on the real reason this is happening, the DA's office combined with state laws make it hard to bail people and send people to prison. That's the decision made, and it's referred to as the carceral system. It's something viewed as urgently needing reform, and that's how the progressive DA's operate. Look at Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA's program ( https://www.manhattanda.org/…

The real reason is mentioned I the article: it’s absurdly easy to sell bulk stolen goods online. As long as that’s possible, there will always be someone stealing it, no matter how many people you lock up.

That sounds like we're pointing to an external force (the ease of selling stolen goods online), as if it were some sort of magnetic draw, an irresistible temptation.

What's tempting is that there's a lack of punishment. Do you propose we lecture to thieves to dissuade them?

It's like arguing people run red lights because they get distracted due to phone notifications and so maybe we shouldn't punish them with points that could lead to a license suspension.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#112

Post by standardUser »

Vaslo wrote: post #100
standardUser wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly think shoplifters should be locked in a cage?

What punishment do you suggest then? The unacceptable answer is none.

The fact that the only solution you see is "punishment" is exactly the problem. No reasonable punishment will stop these crimes. Period. And unreasonable punishments, like locking a human in a cage without rehabilitation for years of their life, only make the problem worse and cost us a ridiculous amount of money (and humanity).

So maybe take a step back, or five, and think about the causes of petty crimes and why they happen here more than other nations.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#113

Post by 58028641 »

tdehnel wrote: post #108
jakelazaroff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Walk around the city and you see more cops than ever. The issue is that police don’t actually prevent crime. Putting more cops on the street is like trying to use water to extinguish a grease fire.

This is possibly the most ridiculous argument being used today. Anyone who has looked at their speed and slowed down while driving past a cop can confirm that you’re full of it.

Speeding is not shoplifting

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#114

Post by gnu8 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #15
HWR_14 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless population (including those in shelters and cars) is < 1% of SF's population. Even if they used products at the same rate as the rest of the population and stole 100% of what they used, they would be responsible for less than half of retail shrinkage.

Homeless people steal stuff mostly not for their own consumption, but to sell it.

Of course they are stealing things for their own consumption. They are merely choosing to steal a particular thing that is easy to steal and easy to convert to cash, which they can then use to purchase the diverse things they need to survive.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#115

Post by Spivak »

tdehnel wrote: post #108
jakelazaroff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Walk around the city and you see more cops than ever. The issue is that police don’t actually prevent crime. Putting more cops on the street is like trying to use water to extinguish a grease fire.

This is possibly the most ridiculous argument being used today. Anyone who has looked at their speed and slowed down while driving past a cop can confirm that you’re full of it.

Yeah, and then they speed right back up after once out of view. The best you can say is that cops prevent crimes when they make their presence known and have the would-be crime doer in their sight.

So sure, if you post an officer every 50 feet you might actually start deterring crime. But when we’re talking about increasing police density from basically zero to basically zero it’s not gonna do much.

One method of deterring crime is the “fuck you in particular” method of ramping up the punishment crazy disproportionately to the crime but how this really works in practice is the “two americas” problem where if you’re not a group cops are targeting you’re probably not gonna get caught and made an example of. Also despite it working I think this is crazy unethical to the people caught.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#116

Post by jmyeet »

So if we attribute the rise in petty property theft to organized crime gangs that still doesn't get to the issue of why. we know why and we've known for thousands of years [1]:

    "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime"
        -- Aristotle
No one grows up wanting to steal deoderant from Walgreens. A lot of crime can simply be explained by material conditions. Over the last 40 years in particular, we've seen real income be eroded. Ultimately continued profit growht comes at the expense of labor and labor has enjoyed none of the benefits of decades on increased productivity.

We have a very peculiar "recession" that ultimately seems aimed at breaking labor when, for the first time in decades, people started to see a real increase in wages. That is unacceptable as it reduces profits. The Fed Chair is on the record as wanting to increase the unemployment level.

[1]: https://quotepark.com/quotes/1360890-aristotle-poverty-is-th...

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#117

Post by lmm »

standardUser wrote: post #97
mancerayder wrote: post #72

What's amazing is how no one is honing in on the real reason this is happening, the DA's office combined with state laws make it hard to bail people and send people to prison. That's the decision made, and it's referred to as the carceral system. It's something viewed as urgently needing reform, and that's how the progressive DA's operate. Look at Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA's program ( https://www.manhattanda.org/…

Do you honestly think shoplifters should be locked in a cage?

Yes, or worse. Fuck 'em, frankly.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#118

Post by yalogin »

Piggybacking on this thread, is stealing a common thing across the whole of the US or is it restricted to some areas? I keep getting asked how people in n San Francisco are living with crime so rampant and they send a video of gangs stealing from a store/mall.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#119

Post by User23 »

Terretta wrote: post #8

I'd wondered if someone figured out how to turn deodorant into meth, since they started protecting it like Sudafed even after Sudafed was removed from the Sudafed boxes sold as Sudafed (phenylphrine is not pseudoephedrine and is not effective). Sudafed, baby formula, deodorant, and razor blades, together could sound like a Jesse Pinkman shopping list before he found a high school chemistry teacher to help him. At the…

> phenylphrine is not pseudoephedrine and is not effective

This is a scientific fact supported by all the research. And yet for some reason the FDA approved it as effective.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#120

Post by robertoandred »

standardUser wrote: post #97
mancerayder wrote: post #72

What's amazing is how no one is honing in on the real reason this is happening, the DA's office combined with state laws make it hard to bail people and send people to prison. That's the decision made, and it's referred to as the carceral system. It's something viewed as urgently needing reform, and that's how the progressive DA's operate. Look at Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA's program ( https://www.manhattanda.org/…

Do you honestly think shoplifters should be locked in a cage?

Why not? They’re a danger to society otherwise.
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