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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#91

Post by psychphysic »

compiler-guy wrote: post #25
bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #19

The article says prosecutors don't go after these thefts but I'd think the issue is with the cops and the number of arrests. After the BLM protests of 2020 (George Floyd) cops basically went hands off on these so called minor crimes, and so I'd imagine many of them don't even make it to prosecutors. We'd need a graph of incidents and arrests for years prior to 2020 (or months in early vs late 2020) to see the change.

The article claims that the BLM protests made little difference, and include a graph of various states comparing the amount of shoplifting with the amount of prosecution. Generally there doesn’t seem to be a correlation between states with large BLM protests and reduced prosecution. For example, Oregon had huge protests and weak government responses, and yet prosecutes large amounts of shoplifting. Blaming this on th…

Invariably people will blame BLM there's a lot of latent disgruntlement.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#92

Post by welder »

Finnucane wrote: post #75
nhoughto wrote: post #4

Same in SF, I assumed it was because of the homelessness problem. Seems more likely than shoplifting gangs..

Is there anywhere this is not the case now? At many drug stores here a lot of stuff is locked up. A lot of drug stores are woefully understaffed because they all want to rely on automated checkout and not have anyone in the store.

> Is there anywhere this is not the case now?

I just visited Texas and they didn't have this problem, but it was hella boring there. A lot of places outside the USA also don't have this problem even in the big cities.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#93

Post by joenot443 »

nkrisc wrote: post #76
mancerayder wrote: post #72

What's amazing is how no one is honing in on the real reason this is happening, the DA's office combined with state laws make it hard to bail people and send people to prison. That's the decision made, and it's referred to as the carceral system. It's something viewed as urgently needing reform, and that's how the progressive DA's operate. Look at Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA's program ( https://www.manhattanda.org/…

The real reason is mentioned I the article: it’s absurdly easy to sell bulk stolen goods online. As long as that’s possible, there will always be someone stealing it, no matter how many people you lock up.

Why is it specifically a problem here in New York then, but wherever else I go in the country I don't see things nearly as locked up? Geography presumably shouldn't be a factor if shoplifters are only selling their loot online.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#94

Post by cm2187 »

AuthorizedCust wrote: post #46
cm2187 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement is not done at the state level but at the city level.

False. Law enforcement has many layers with concurrent jurisdiction. It’s not just city. How each jurisdiction polices can vary widely depending on where you are.

State police doesn't deal with shoplifting.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#95

Post by cm2187 »

compiler-guy wrote: post #42
cm2187 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement is not done at the state level but at the city level.

The stats are prosecutions aggregated by state, not state prosecutions.

My point is that you can have a democrat city abdicating law enforcement in a republican state. What matters for local crime is the city, not the wider state.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#96

Post by bigDinosaur »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #69
MichaelCollins wrote: post #33

> "The stores are insured bro, why do you care if people steal from them? It's not your problem maaan." This is why I care. Criminals degrade society and we all suffer for their greed.

That’s one perspective. Another is that the truly greedy thing is to construct a society such that some people can’t afford basic necessities, and that inflicts far more suffering than people stealing what they need to live.

What makes you think people are stealing what they need to live? That can sometimes be true, but is often not true at all. Either way there's no way in which theft, often from people or companies that have no hand in inequality, does not make things worse for everyone else. It screws over other poor people who don't steal because everyone else will be paying for the insurance and restocking of stolen property...

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#97

Post by standardUser »

mancerayder wrote: post #72

What's amazing is how no one is honing in on the real reason this is happening, the DA's office combined with state laws make it hard to bail people and send people to prison. That's the decision made, and it's referred to as the carceral system. It's something viewed as urgently needing reform, and that's how the progressive DA's operate. Look at Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA's program ( https://www.manhattanda.org/…

Do you honestly think shoplifters should be locked in a cage?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#98

Post by tdehnel »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #69
MichaelCollins wrote: post #33

> "The stores are insured bro, why do you care if people steal from them? It's not your problem maaan." This is why I care. Criminals degrade society and we all suffer for their greed.

That’s one perspective. Another is that the truly greedy thing is to construct a society such that some people can’t afford basic necessities, and that inflicts far more suffering than people stealing what they need to live.

Oh knock it off with this crap. The article is about organized retail theft. If you work for a criminal enterprise you should work a legal job and pay for things like everyone else.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#99

Post by zone411 »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #19

The article says prosecutors don't go after these thefts but I'd think the issue is with the cops and the number of arrests. After the BLM protests of 2020 (George Floyd) cops basically went hands off on these so called minor crimes, and so I'd imagine many of them don't even make it to prosecutors. We'd need a graph of incidents and arrests for years prior to 2020 (or months in early vs late 2020) to see the change.

In Chicago there has been a dramatic drop off: the arrest rate for retail theft went from 43%-54% in 2016-2019 to 18% in 2021 and the number of cases brought to Chicago police has dropped from 8986-10792/year to 6166.

https://abc7chicago.com/smash-and-grab-robberies-chicago-org...

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#100

Post by Vaslo »

standardUser wrote: post #97
mancerayder wrote: post #72

What's amazing is how no one is honing in on the real reason this is happening, the DA's office combined with state laws make it hard to bail people and send people to prison. That's the decision made, and it's referred to as the carceral system. It's something viewed as urgently needing reform, and that's how the progressive DA's operate. Look at Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA's program ( https://www.manhattanda.org/…

Do you honestly think shoplifters should be locked in a cage?

What punishment do you suggest then? The unacceptable answer is none.
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