Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

missionlocal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 225 posts

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#61

Post by vorpalhex »

stefan_ wrote: post #55
vorpalhex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bystanders. You can't bet someone elses life based on how well a taser may or may not work. LTL is a real dice throw.

People do not in fact immediately fall over just because you shoot them. The idea of shooting someone with a pistol or rifle caliber to stop them from doing something in a split second is firmly a movie trope.

And that is why cops get taught to mag dump suspects in center mass. Shooting someone a half dozen to a dozen times does tend to make them dead.

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#62

Post by calibas »

localtoday.news copied the article from here:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/san-francisco-police-seek-pe...

Which copied the article from here:

https://www.engadget.com/san-francisco-police-seek-permissio...

Which is a rewrite of the original article here:

https://missionlocal.org/2022/11/killer-robots-to-be-permitt...

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#63

Post by Spivak »

cyberphobe wrote: post #36
POiNTx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not pro gun or even American, but to me it seems a lot of those shootings happen in high stress situations, not in a remotely controlled environment.

Usually the high stress situation is manufactured entirely or significantly heightened by the officers involved

Which is why I think I might be on board with this. The “police are professionals trained to keep their cool even in life threatening situations” boat sailed ages ago. So making it so police aren’t in the life threatening situation at all might be a win.

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#64

Post by woodruffw »

vorpalhex wrote: post #54
titzer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bystanders. Also vulnerable to bullets, as it turns out.

There is a reason firearms come with sights and we make cops qualify with their service weapons.

That qualification hasn't meant much, going by the rate at which police hurt themselves (and innocent members of the public) with their own service weapons.

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#65

Post by butMebbe »

jef_leppard wrote: post #20

When people say "defund the police" this is the kind of shit they are talking about. There is no reason for a police force to have access to lethal robots. None.

Train citizens to drive robot non-lethal surveillance drones, do paperwork, cut funding for rage prone meat bag policing.

Maintain minimum required force of trigger happies for all the shooting scenarios.

Our secular society isn’t anymore sacrosanct than religious based choices. It should be readily reorganize-able as logistics demand.

Optimizing for 24/7 status quo politics, profit margin optimizing and rent extraction “or else the world ends” is not so different from forcing unfalsifiable magic down our throats.

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#66

Post by petilon »

jef_leppard wrote: post #20

When people say "defund the police" this is the kind of shit they are talking about. There is no reason for a police force to have access to lethal robots. None.

One word --> Uvalde.

A remote-controlled robot equipped with a gun is needed in this type of situation. The gun will be operated by a human, remotely.

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#68

Post by phkahler »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #30
blamazon wrote: post #15

Note that under discussion is only remote controlled electromechanical devices. They are not requesting permission for autonomous killer robots. (yet) Surprisingly, there is already precedent for this in US policing. All the way back in 2016, a gunman in Dallas was killed by police using a bomb defusal robot with remote-control explosives attached to it: https://www.texastribune.org/2016/07/08/use-robot-kill-dalla...

Yes I was hoping someone mentioned this. There's already precedent for this kind of thing, I'm honestly surprised they even need to ask for permission in this case. It's not automated, it's just remote controlled.

If it's remote controlled then there isn't even a self defense justification to shoot. And I've never liked the notion of police shooting someone for threatening another person. The classic example being domestic disputes where they don't know who the aggressor is. A great example last year was that girl being attacked, called 911, but by the time the police arrived, she got the weapon and was threatening her attacker. They shot her.

IMHO they need to shoot less, not feel safer in doing so.

BYW I know the job can be scary AF. Remote control robot should reduce that, so less need to defend.

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#69

Post by chimeracoder »

Alupis wrote: post #53

Folks - this is not a lethal autonomous robot. This is a remotely controlled bomb disposal robot retrofitted with a gun. A human still has to pull the (digital) trigger to use lethal force. This is nothing but a good thing. Nobody cares if a robot is destroyed. A robot will allow everyone time to think and assess the situation before making a snap-judgement we all question later on. This can do nothing but reduce let…

> A human still has to pull the (digital) trigger to use lethal force.

Because cops have such a great track record with those decisions so far?

> In the field, lethal force happens because people are forced to make snap judgements.

This is what cops always claim when these discussions come up, but a look at the actual data proves otherwise. Cops routinely kill civilians - including innocent ones - in situations where there is literally no possible way they could reasonably be fearing for their life or be forced to make a "snap decision".

Re: Draft policy proposal would authorize SF Police to use deadly force with robots

#70

Post by vorpalhex »

woodruffw wrote: post #64
vorpalhex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason firearms come with sights and we make cops qualify with their service weapons.

That qualification hasn't meant much, going by the rate at which police hurt themselves (and innocent members of the public) with their own service weapons.

I agree police should get more training.

You will have to fund them more if you want that.

Post reply on HN