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We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

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Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#181

Post by pas »

jcims wrote: post #169
sirsinsalot wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a really important point. We use lots of terms these days in ever more generic ways: cult, gaslighting, abuse, "I'm a bit OCD" ... each broader use of the language weakens the contexts where the language is more pointed. Of course, context is everything and language is fluid, but think pieces that inadvertently soften words can also downgrade important intentions as a side-effect.

It's like the loudness wars in music production. Dynamic range in language is being sacrificed to elevate the mundane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Spectrum things are spectrum things after all, and they are symptom driven diagnoses, so colloquial usage of these terms are not particularly bad/incorrect/invalid.

Though of course it can lead to misuderstandings and severe conflicts when someone who suffers gravely from one such condition and now in addition they have to add more qualifiers and verbosity to try to express their needs.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#182

Post by mistermann »

sharikous wrote: post #135

I have come to realize that every imposition of power from an individual or a group has the same characteristics. From a narcissistic single person in the family, to an evangelist, a religion, a state. They all follow the same patterns. It's pervasive but if you pick your poison carefully you will be in a place that lets you have the maximum freedom (a democratic state, a healthy family dynamic, atheism or a very lib…

> It's pervasive but if you pick your poison carefully you will be in a place that lets you have the maximum freedom (a democratic state, a healthy family dynamic, atheism or a very liberal spirituality). The majority howver willingly or not will pick the power system where they think they are most comfortable (usually the one they grew up with).

An interesting way of thinking, where did you learn it from?

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#183

Post by brian-bk »

Essay reads like a cult essay. Kinda like: 'Sorry to inform you that you are in a cult, but stay here, we'll fix you up and make you better.'

It reminds me of spam saying "your computer has been infected with a virus, download this tool (definitely not the real virus) to cleanse your computer".

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#184

Post by camjohnson26 »

cainxinth wrote: post #168
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

Cults have common and shared warning signs: https://medium.com/@zelphontheshelf/10-signs-youre-probably-... 1. The leader is the ultimate authority 2. The group suppresses skepticism 3. The group delegitimizes former members 4. The group is paranoid about the outside world 5. The group relies on shame cycles 6. The leader is above the law 7. The group uses “thought reform” methods 8. The group is elitist 9. There is…

It’s been posted here before but The Guru Papers is a great exploration of the workings of cults and authoritarianism. https://www.amazon.com/Guru-Papers-Masks-Authoritarian-Power...

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#185

Post by hnedeotes »

dang wrote: post #31
smaudet wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be in part bot activity. I've seen a couple other weird things rise up on here. The blogging platform for this one is interesting, if you follow the rabbit hole a bit you'll find e.g. https://herman.bearblog.dev/building-software-to-last-foreve... I don't see that many posts, but it appears to have some interesting traffic on it at present. Worth holding on to perhaps? https://github.com/HermanMartinus/bearblog…

I looked at the data; the upvoters are ordinary HN users—not bots, unless someone created bots 7 years ago to comment about monorepos and upvote Haskell blogs.

wait a minute... OMG https://www.haskell.org/cabal/

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#186

Post by deltarholamda »

peepee1982 wrote: post #74

A lot of people here seem to be offended by this essay because of the literal definition of the term "cult" and start looking for potential cults they may be part of. I think they are mistaken. To me, this essay clearly speaks about the maladaptive conditioning we receive from our families and society in general during childhood and adolescence which causes us to suppress our feelings and authentic selves and treat t…

>maladaptive conditioning we receive from our families and society in general

We adapted to the world through our families and society. A human alone 50,000 years ago was a delicious meal, not a rugged individualist.

I would suggest that anything that encourages you to live an atomized life is maladaptive. We can get away with some degree of that now, but only due to thousands of years of various cult-like behaviors that built the world to be more fit for humans.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#187

Post by prirun »

cainxinth wrote: post #168
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

Cults have common and shared warning signs: https://medium.com/@zelphontheshelf/10-signs-youre-probably-... 1. The leader is the ultimate authority 2. The group suppresses skepticism 3. The group delegitimizes former members 4. The group is paranoid about the outside world 5. The group relies on shame cycles 6. The leader is above the law 7. The group uses “thought reform” methods 8. The group is elitist 9. There is…

In summary, every religion.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#188

Post by user_7832 »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #152
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

I think this is a really important point. We use lots of terms these days in ever more generic ways: cult, gaslighting, abuse, "I'm a bit OCD" ... each broader use of the language weakens the contexts where the language is more pointed. Of course, context is everything and language is fluid, but think pieces that inadvertently soften words can also downgrade important intentions as a side-effect.

Don't forget the (sibling?) of OCD, OCPD. Similar but different.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#189

Post by andrewla »

cainxinth wrote: post #168
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

Cults have common and shared warning signs: https://medium.com/@zelphontheshelf/10-signs-youre-probably-... 1. The leader is the ultimate authority 2. The group suppresses skepticism 3. The group delegitimizes former members 4. The group is paranoid about the outside world 5. The group relies on shame cycles 6. The leader is above the law 7. The group uses “thought reform” methods 8. The group is elitist 9. There is…

> Also, not all cults are religious

Now we're well into the map vs territory. In the attempt to define a cult (something which we intuit) we end up fixated on the boundary between what is a cult and what is not a cult, and try to create a taxonomic rule-based classification.

The mistake is then to assume that that rule-based classification defines what a cult is (rather than attempts to describe what is a cult) and you end up saying that something (like MLMs) are a "cult" even though they are not! I mean, you can make an analogy to a cult, or show cult-like properties, but absent a religious motivation (where "religious" itself is a similarly nebulous concept) it's not a cult.

If your rule-based model defines something which is not a cult (subjectively) as a cult (objectively), then your definitions are bad, period, and you should stop using them. Instead, embrace fuzziness and subjectivity and look for the interesting properties of "cult", and learn what it teaches us about language and society.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#190

Post by themaninthedark »

etchalon wrote: post #43
whatshisface wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's adding one (making a positive should-statement) not removing one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_precepts

Technically, he said eat babies, not kill them. So if the baby is already dead, ie SIDS. You would not be violating any of the precepts but you would still be getting funny looks.
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