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We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

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Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#161

Post by drewbug01 »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #152
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

I think this is a really important point. We use lots of terms these days in ever more generic ways: cult, gaslighting, abuse, "I'm a bit OCD" ... each broader use of the language weakens the contexts where the language is more pointed. Of course, context is everything and language is fluid, but think pieces that inadvertently soften words can also downgrade important intentions as a side-effect.

I agree with that, yes. Of course - I’m glad that society now speaks about these things openly (rather than pretending mental health issues were not real problems). But it does come with the downside you highlighted.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#163

Post by tomrod »

drewbug01 wrote: post #158
tomrod wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow cult survivor, I agree with your view. Almost 10 years out, my spouse and I still make inside jokes for the insider speech and content. However, the exit process is one that seems exclusively designed to prevent dignity from being maintained. Ed: > They have never experienced the ongoing heartbreak of losing your entire world when you leave - your family, your friends, your job, your social life, your rel…

I definitely get that - I don’t have anyone close to me right now that escaped (sadly not all of those escapes were permanent), but I’ve been able to joke around with fellow survivors in the past. It felt really freeing to be able to talk openly enough such that we could crack a joke about it. :) I’m glad you and your wife were able to get out, too. :)

Likewise. All the best to you. I was extremely lucky my spouse came along and left a few years after me.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#164

Post by bart_spoon »

I’ve seen so much quibbling at what criteria actually makes something a cult. Some religions get labeled as cults, when others don’t, and the without much differentiation between them. Some atheistic communities have just as many cult-like attributes as religious ones, but don’t get labeled as a cult. The same goes for political groups, companies, philosophies, and online communities. It seems like most human communities have cult-like characteristics.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the word “cult” isn’t very useful as a descriptor, at least in terms of the thing it’s describing. Rather, it’s far more useful as a descriptor of the person using the word to describe something. As the post indicates, we all belong to a cult of some kind, or engage in some level of cultish behavior. If I label something a cult, it doesn’t tell you much about that thing itself, or ways in which it is more of a cult than anything else, but it does signify my disapproval of that thing, which probably, at a base level is due to reasons unrelated to the cult-like behavior of that group.

In short, the labeling of something as a cult doesn’t actually do anything to describe that thing. Rather it’s a Rorschach test for the person doing the labeling.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#165

Post by mbreese »

jondeval wrote: post #151
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Christianity says that far from suffering always being a punishment from God for bad behavior. Besides, you know... Hell, lakes of sulfur and eternal damnation.

> Besides, you know... For those interested in knowing the actual Christian teaching on the topic of hell, just be aware that this comment is completely incorrect.

For those looking to find a definitive “actual” teaching on hell (or any topic) in Christianity, just be aware, it will take a while. There are a lot of denominations, each with many differing takes on hell.

The above comment is reflective of one such interpretation of hell. Not an exclusive interpretation, but still a valid one.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#166

Post by kardianos »

drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

"Everything is a cult" appears to stem from the idea that "everything is political/a social construct". This of course is false because there exists a reality that establishes what is common to man and that there better and worse ways of living.

The danger of the "everything is a ..." mindset is it allows utopian and virtue ideology to lead and control people.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#167

Post by drewbug01 »

tomrod wrote: post #160
drewbug01 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience finding a therapist who could work with “religious trauma”. Part of the reason I finally started calling it a cult (despite the stigma) is that at least in the US that seemed to help people understand that I meant something deeper and darker than the average person. (Not to mention: a lot of people get really touchy with the idea that religion can be “traumatic” at all.)

Isn't that odd, that people are gunshy to acknowledge religion as traumatic? There is one comment on the board calling out the article's negatively towards magical thinking as bigotry. To folks that are recovering from religious trauma, it's straight up lived experience.

> Isn't that odd, that people are gunshy to acknowledge religion as traumatic?

Truthfully? I find it very difficult to see religion as anything other than traumatic, because what I went through was so bad and different than what most people think of when they think of “religion.” I don’t know if I have any real objectivity in the matter.

I do feel that there is something interesting in that line of thought, however. Perhaps it has to do with the intensely personal nature of religious conviction, and the existential subject matter it deals with?

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#168

Post by cainxinth »

drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

Cults have common and shared warning signs:

https://medium.com/@zelphontheshelf/10-signs-youre-probably-...

1. The leader is the ultimate authority

2. The group suppresses skepticism

3. The group delegitimizes former members

4. The group is paranoid about the outside world

5. The group relies on shame cycles

6. The leader is above the law

7. The group uses “thought reform” methods

8. The group is elitist

9. There is no financial transparency

10. The group performs secret rites

Also, not all cults are religious. Some are tied to economic activity (MLMs are very culty, for example), and dysfunctional families often take on a cult-like atmosphere, with a charismatic and controlling parent backed by enablers as they abuse a scapegoat and dominate the family.

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#169

Post by jcims »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #152
drewbug01 wrote: post #130

It’s an interesting piece, and I think it’s intended to be satirical (and done rather well). But, I grew up in an actual cult. The comments here to the effect of “everything’s a cult” and “startups are cults” and “HN is a cult” - oh gosh. Nothing could be further from the truth. HN is not a cult, folks. I’m glad people can make those jokes though, because I immediately know they didn’t experience what I did. They hav…

I think this is a really important point. We use lots of terms these days in ever more generic ways: cult, gaslighting, abuse, "I'm a bit OCD" ... each broader use of the language weakens the contexts where the language is more pointed. Of course, context is everything and language is fluid, but think pieces that inadvertently soften words can also downgrade important intentions as a side-effect.

It's like the loudness wars in music production. Dynamic range in language is being sacrificed to elevate the mundane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Re: We are sorry to inform you that you are in a cult

#170

Post by vincnetas »

gwd wrote: post #138
vincnetas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it's religion. You will experience unpleasant feelings here. Feelings your cult has told you are of the devil. Part of our program involves exposing you to the idea that there are very rarely easy answers in life. People suffer for no reason. You will suffer, and have suffered, for no reason. But people can also do great things for no reason, or rather unmotivated by some promise of godly exaltation o…

It sounds like the problem thinking they're trying to address here is the idea, "I'm suffering because I've done something bad and am being punished by God." But if they think this kind of thinking is directly linked to religion, then it's just ignorance and bigotry. Consider the folloing quote: "Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions." The people I know who most…

But suffering can be valuable without it (suffering) being caused by supreme being. No mater why i experience suffering i can learn from it, and prevent in future. By the way author talks about "reason" for suffering. There is no mention that you can't learn from it (meaning, benefit).
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