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Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

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Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#51

Post by dagmx »

shmerl wrote: post #47
dagmx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that’s in the future and they aren’t not going to add Vulkan. But it makes sense to prioritize GL for now, especially because a lot of the GL work comes much easier thanks to their prior MESA work. Even amongst your list, I don’t see mass adoption of the applications today that don’t also have a GL backend. Blender alone will be a gargantuan uplift to get to Vulkan because so much of the ecosystem is coded…

This kind of experimental project above looks pretty well aligned with where things are heading, so I think focus on Vulkan would be still fitting. Meaning by the time it will be more usable, Vulkan will be more used as well. And as above, if you implement Vulkan - you get OpenGL through Zink. If you implement OpenGL - you still have to implement Vulkan. So with limited resources, the first option looks way more effe…

You’re looking at it from a number of implementations perspective.

They’re looking at it as a time to viable product perspective and a ROI.

These are often at odds within engineering , and it makes sense for them to pick their way because they already have a lot of the GL stuff done and it’s a faster route to a viable product.

Again, going for vulkan would mean they’d have to spend significantly more time up front.

You seem to be maximizing for not trying to do work (e.g implementing both Vulkan and OpenGL), but in many cases it’s better to get something stable and workable out.

Basically, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#52

Post by shmerl »

dagmx wrote: post #51
shmerl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of experimental project above looks pretty well aligned with where things are heading, so I think focus on Vulkan would be still fitting. Meaning by the time it will be more usable, Vulkan will be more used as well. And as above, if you implement Vulkan - you get OpenGL through Zink. If you implement OpenGL - you still have to implement Vulkan. So with limited resources, the first option looks way more effe…

You’re looking at it from a number of implementations perspective. They’re looking at it as a time to viable product perspective and a ROI. These are often at odds within engineering , and it makes sense for them to pick their way because they already have a lot of the GL stuff done and it’s a faster route to a viable product. Again, going for vulkan would mean they’d have to spend significantly more time up front. Y…

I don't see OpenGL only option as something worth using seriously, so not a usable option in practice, if I can simply get hardware where Vulkan works fine.

So as a fun experiment, it can be interesting. As something practical - doesn't seem so until all pieces are in place.

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#53

Post by rowanG077 »

shmerl wrote: post #38
dagmx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vulkan is a lot more work to get to, with far fewer applications using it. It would be a worse ROI, and take significantly longer to make an OS that can be a daily driver for most people.

Not sure if OpenGL 4.0-4.6 is less work in general. I'd argue implementing Vulkan gives the best ROI, since it gives all OpenGL after that without extra effort. And I don't think that few applications use it. Anything modern tries to. The rest are planning to move to it.

I believe, and I couldn't quickly find it in the docs, that Mesa provides certain OpenGL versions if you have implement certain OpenGLES version. For for example if you have OpenGLES3 you get OpenGL 3 for free via Mesa (These version numbers are made up, I don't actually know which OGL version can be implemented in terms of OGLES)

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#54

Post by saagarjha »

urthor wrote: post #50
saagarjha wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds more like it would be lower priority than very difficult?

It's not a single, difficult feature. It's a system wide tuning of voltage frequency plus idle times for all sorts of micro-controllers, plus who knows what else. In its own way, it's extremely, extremely difficult.

Yes, I’m aware. I’m just putting it in the context of the rest of the project.

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#55

Post by charcircuit »

bdhcuidbebe wrote: post #45
charcircuit wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking about impressive performance of a "day 1" build I feel there is a difference between new drivers and new ports of existing drivers.

Correct. But this is a new driver.

Part of the driver is new, but part of it is just existing code that is part of Mesa.

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#57

Post by rowanG077 »

charcircuit wrote: post #30
boarush wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they're calling it Day 1 in the sense that the devs themselves are saying a lot of it is hacked together and not daily driver material for most of the users. A lot of releases and revisions before this is even upstreamed.

When talking about impressive performance of a "day 1" build I feel there is a difference between new drivers and new ports of existing drivers.

This isn't a port of an existing driver. It's completely new Kernel space + user space driver. Of course it makes use of the mesa "framework" but that doesn't mean the driver is 27 years old.

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#58

Post by smcl »

fastball wrote: post #24
smcl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a start - remember this developer has basically bootstrapped linux on Apple's custom hardware and this is the early stages of the latest area she's focussed on (getting the GPU working). This has been an impressive project, it'll no doubt continue.

Minor correction but most of the "bootstrapping" work unrelated to the GPU has been done by Hector Martin, Alyssa's focus has always been on the GPU side of it.

Ah apologies, it's Alyssa who I usually see in relation to Asahi Linux so maybe I over-attributed it to her :)

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#59

Post by [deleted] »

dagmx wrote: post #41
shmerl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if OpenGL 4.0-4.6 is less work in general. I'd argue implementing Vulkan gives the best ROI, since it gives all OpenGL after that without extra effort. And I don't think that few applications use it. Anything modern tries to. The rest are planning to move to it.

What common or high profile applications do you think actively target Vulkan? Outside of games very few do in my experience but I’d love to see some examples outside what I know of.

[deleted]

Re: Minecraft Running on Asahi Linux with Open Source GPU Drivers

#60

Post by mort96 »

dagmx wrote: post #41
shmerl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if OpenGL 4.0-4.6 is less work in general. I'd argue implementing Vulkan gives the best ROI, since it gives all OpenGL after that without extra effort. And I don't think that few applications use it. Anything modern tries to. The rest are planning to move to it.

What common or high profile applications do you think actively target Vulkan? Outside of games very few do in my experience but I’d love to see some examples outside what I know of.

As shmerl pointed out in their first comment, once Vulkan support is there, you get OpenGL support for free through Mesa's Zinc driver.
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