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IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

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Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#71

Post by Jensson »

mjburgess wrote: post #13
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #7

It's sort of like getting a computer's performance. All sorts of things goes into a measure. Central processing speed, memory, memory access speed, cache size, software optimization and cache build up. I think some people really WANT IQ to be only about central processing speed, but since that's not measurable we're trying to tease out what it is from the end performance metric. But really everything is important to…

There is zero research to show IQ tests count as valid and reliable measures of anything associated with intelligence. Your hypothesis as to what properties minds have, what those properties give rise to, and how IQ tests count as measures *has no scientific backing*. This description of IQ tests is, imv, an extremely unlikely account. If you want to show IQ scores are measures of these properties, please provide (1)…

> There is zero research to show IQ tests count as valid and reliable measures of anything associated with intelligence.

It is the opposite, IQ correlates with basically every measure and score people have came up with that they think could represent intelligence in some way. This concept is called G.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#72

Post by froh »

Animats wrote: post #22

That's more a rant than useful information. However, it's a politically popular position in some circles in recent years. Compare Wikipedia in 2015 [1] with Wikipedia today [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intelligence_quot... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intelligence_quot...

direct link to the diff from 1 to 2

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intelligence_qu...

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#73

Post by maximus-decimus »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #66
maximus-decimus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I don't find a science fiction book to be an inspiring argument. Find me a below average height person who made it at the NBA or somebody, anybody, with a below average IQ who got a science Nobel prize and you'll have my attention. But if you have to rely on a pure fantasy novel to find a counter-example, it doesn't give me any confidence in your theory.

> Sorry, but I don't think you can learn anything from allegories, they're not "real life". there, fixed that for you. As for the rest ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shortest_players_in_Na... The shortest NBA player was 5'3" and played until 2001. Isaiah Thomas is the shortest player to play in an all-star game at 5'9". --- But hey, good luck, I'm sure you're smarter than the rest of us and you'll do just…

You've caught me, I'm an allegory hater. Thanks about that NBA player list. Truly inspiring somebody who's 5"3' could play in the NBA.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#74

Post by froh »

csa wrote: post #60

It’s a dismally used measure of intelligence. But the validated IQ tests are pretty good at doing what they claim to do. IQ tests have their place, but they are grossly and frequently used inappropriately, imho. Note that actual psychology researchers like Howard Gardner and Robert Sternberg (and many others) have written quite a bit about various aspects of intelligence that the author alludes to. IQ is just one fai…

it's uncommon to thank someone here on HN. so I just say you have saved me a tremendous amount of time and if I knew how to sticky your post to the top (against all currently popular grain) I'd do so.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#75

Post by wesleywt »

ilyt wrote: post #39
wesleywt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is worst than no measure of intelligence. It gives a false impression of the truth that can hurt the person or people involved. IQ is often used in racist terms, since certain populations in the world do not have the cultural background to pass this arbitary test

Aren't IQ tests supposed to be made culturally/language independent tho ? What would be "cultural" thing on IQ test ? The ones I saw never really had anything aside base-10 numbers. Do you have any examples ?

The most famous example was of black kids who never seen a ruby in their lives in the 50s. But Ruby the name was quite popular. So they got that question wrong. But it is normally used to denigrate Africans who have even less exposure to European norms than African Americans. Despite the genetic diversity of Africans being a lot higher than Europeans, they are often thrown into the same batch of "IQ deficient" groups. None of this is actually scientifically sound.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#77

Post by csa »

froh wrote: post #74
csa wrote: post #60

It’s a dismally used measure of intelligence. But the validated IQ tests are pretty good at doing what they claim to do. IQ tests have their place, but they are grossly and frequently used inappropriately, imho. Note that actual psychology researchers like Howard Gardner and Robert Sternberg (and many others) have written quite a bit about various aspects of intelligence that the author alludes to. IQ is just one fai…

it's uncommon to thank someone here on HN. so I just say you have saved me a tremendous amount of time and if I knew how to sticky your post to the top (against all currently popular grain) I'd do so.

I appreciate that.

I’m glad that my reply was well-received.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#78

Post by candiodari »

pdntspa wrote: post #18
the_shivers wrote: post #2

The article doesn't appear to suggest a viable substitute for IQ. It concludes that we should "[measure] what an intellect can accomplish in a lifetime," but this isn't really practical. IQ is not a perfect measure of intelligence, but I think it's better than no measure of intelligence.

Why do we really need a measure of intelligence? What does this grant us aside from giving people yet another cudgel with which to lord over others, and another way for unfortunate people to feel bad about themselves? When/how is IQ ever used for good? Everyone I have ever talked to about it who talks about others' IQ intends to use those people for their own selfish purposes. And people I've talked to who talk about…

Well that's easy: to change education for people based on their abilities. Any specific class can only be educated to the lowest level everyone in the class will support. So you split up classes by IQ, you don't even give more opportunities to the "high-IQ" class. You just split them up. Nothing more.

Generally this is not based on actual IQ test results, but on teachers impressions. And they keep "secret" which is the high IQ class. And if a kid is really motivated to be in the better class, change the kid to the other class (and vice-versa) if at all possible.

Of course this worked better with 15 kids-per-class than with the current 40 kids-per-class education system.

This is doing a lot of good, and has been for decades. Essentially it results in a smarter and more capable society, because people can be educated much closer to the limit of their abilities.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#79

Post by MichaelZuo »

29athrowaway wrote: post #69
tgv wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard that say of Binet. But it doesn't matter. Ideas don't inherit morality. It's their application that counts. Pythagoras had some really outlandish ideas. But the formula holds.

I meant Lewis Terman.

"He is best known for his revision of the Stanford–Binet Intelligence Scales and for initiating the longitudinal study of children with high IQs called the Genetic Studies of Genius."

Just from spending 20 seconds on his Wiki page.

He is clearly not the original inventor.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#80

Post by throwaway_au_1 »

ergonaught wrote: post #14

It's hardly "scientific evidence", but my personal assessments of "how intelligent someone is" appear to correlate quite well into various "IQ bands" if a score is revealed at some point. That may be a coincidence, or they may be dependent upon some other unknown factor(s), but it does work out in practice. People who criticize IQ scores as a proxy for intelligence should publish their own IQ score, no? If the author…

>People who criticize IQ scores as a proxy for intelligence should publish their own IQ score, no? If the author did so, I missed it, which is certainly possible. The not-intentionally-snarky point is that perhaps the author is not "smart enough" to assess this reliably.

From the article:

>I did try an IQ test in the past a few times. [..] I will not disclose the results, because I do not want this text to be skewed by a number I am criticizing. If the number was low, skeptics would say I am not smart enough to appreciate the value of IQ or that my claim is just sour grapes.

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