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IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

supermemo.guru

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Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#21
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobel winner James Heckman did a lot of work on this [1]. The takeaway is that IQ doesn't matter as much as other attributes (character, learned skills, etc.) in life outcomes. HN style crows way overvalue IQ style skills when intelligence has multiple dimensions, many of which matter more than IQ. IQ is effectively just a measure of test-taking skills. That's useful in some areas, but you could see someone like Geng…

IQ is a fair predictor of achievement in life, though. But there are other predictors too, such as parents' socio-economic status, or geographical location. We wouldn't claim these things measure intelligence, though. IQ is a proxy for intelligence, but one with great shortcomings. Unfortunately, there's no agreed upon definition of intelligence, let alone an operalization, and a way of measuring it. So IQ keeps bein…

> Unfortunately, there's no agreed upon definition of intelligence, let alone an operalization, and a way of measuring it. So IQ keeps being used.

Uhuh.... so this line it's crazy, right?

It's really strange you concede that we have no theory and hence no way of verifying whether an IQ score is a valid and reliable measure of the thing we have no theory of... and yet, you say it is a "proxy for intelligence"

The entire edifice of research which makes these claims is a product of a pseudoscientific use of statistics by amateur statisticians. The vast majority of the results you think exist in the literature are frauds, and often egregious ones at that.

A human being is one of the most complex systems known to exist in nature, and the frauds in psychometrics are very far away from being up to the task of studying them. The greatest minds in applied sciences, matehmatics and statistics would largely throw up their hands at the job of measuring "intelligence" --- that some fools havent, is no good thing.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#22
That's more a rant than useful information.

However, it's a politically popular position in some circles in recent years.

Compare Wikipedia in 2015 [1] with Wikipedia today [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intelligence_quot...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intelligence_quot...

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#23
post #9

The article doesn't appear to suggest a viable substitute for IQ. It concludes that we should "[measure] what an intellect can accomplish in a lifetime," but this isn't really practical. IQ is not a perfect measure of intelligence, but I think it's better than no measure of intelligence.

Nobel winner James Heckman did a lot of work on this [1]. The takeaway is that IQ doesn't matter as much as other attributes (character, learned skills, etc.) in life outcomes. HN style crows way overvalue IQ style skills when intelligence has multiple dimensions, many of which matter more than IQ. IQ is effectively just a measure of test-taking skills. That's useful in some areas, but you could see someone like Geng…

"test-taking" is too generic. Puzzle-solving would be more accurate. IQ doesn't do much for test that just require to remember a lot of stuff.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#24

It's hardly "scientific evidence", but my personal assessments of "how intelligent someone is" appear to correlate quite well into various "IQ bands" if a score is revealed at some point. That may be a coincidence, or they may be dependent upon some other unknown factor(s), but it does work out in practice. People who criticize IQ scores as a proxy for intelligence should publish their own IQ score, no? If the author…

Okay, I'll bite. IQ scores are utterly *worthless* as a measure of intelligence because they only measure one's ability to solve a small set of carefully-chosen puzzles under carefully-controlled conditions. They cannot possibly measure anything realistic about intelligence. Since you want people who criticise IQ scores to publish theirs, I'll tell you mine. Measured at various points across my education and out of f…

Are we talking actual vetted IQ tests or some random webpage/gazette offering "IQ test" ? From what I remember "proper" ones generally don't have that much variance per person

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#25

It's hardly "scientific evidence", but my personal assessments of "how intelligent someone is" appear to correlate quite well into various "IQ bands" if a score is revealed at some point. That may be a coincidence, or they may be dependent upon some other unknown factor(s), but it does work out in practice. People who criticize IQ scores as a proxy for intelligence should publish their own IQ score, no? If the author…

Are you sure you're not confusing cause and effect? Like maybe your view of "intelligence" is limited to the definition used by IQ tests. That would be kind of unfortunate because it selects for a certain type of test taking ability, mostly related to logic puzzles and spatial manipulation and vocabulary. Those skills might be useful in academic and some professional contexts, but they don't really benchmark the entirety of human potential.

Human intellect has the capacity for creativity, empathy, wisdom, self awareness, diplomacy, etc., and those aren't as easily measured on an IQ quiz.

Just my 2c as someone who's not professionally trained to apply IQ tests but have studied them as a side interest, and scored highly on them (probably like many others here). It's just one biased facet of our minds, and we shouldn't give it undue weight or rule people out because their minds work differently.

Re: IQ is a dismal measure of intelligence (2019)

#28

It's hardly "scientific evidence", but my personal assessments of "how intelligent someone is" appear to correlate quite well into various "IQ bands" if a score is revealed at some point. That may be a coincidence, or they may be dependent upon some other unknown factor(s), but it does work out in practice. People who criticize IQ scores as a proxy for intelligence should publish their own IQ score, no? If the author…

Okay, I'll bite. IQ scores are utterly *worthless* as a measure of intelligence because they only measure one's ability to solve a small set of carefully-chosen puzzles under carefully-controlled conditions. They cannot possibly measure anything realistic about intelligence. Since you want people who criticise IQ scores to publish theirs, I'll tell you mine. Measured at various points across my education and out of f…

You need to know percentile, not score.
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