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“Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

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Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#381

Post by inglor_cz »

mabbo wrote: post #16

It's all about economics of demand for what Twitter is offering: advertising. Elon's changes have massively harmed the value of an ad on Twitter. Moderation teams are massively cut, meaning advertisers have to worry about their products beside hate speech or worse. At the same time, Elon is explicitly un-banning people who were banned for hate speech, promising that no ads will show beside their future hate speech- i…

"It's all about economics of demand for what Twitter is offering: advertising. Elon's changes have massively harmed the value of an ad on Twitter."

This is actually something that would be in line with Musk's previous communications. Twitter needs to become less dependent on advertising, much less so, so that its value as a public forum isn't held hostage by a few shy giants that would love to see cute kittens and meaningless platitudes next to their ads.

The idea that free services supported by extensive ads is the only way to go has been too long taken for revealed wisdom. The downsides are only now becoming apparent.

That said, the method chosen by Musk seems to be very chaotic and destructive, and it is totally unclear to me if Twitter can actually build a different business model without going belly-up first.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#382

Post by afiori »

phphphphp wrote: post #142
boole1854 wrote: post #105

Many commentators seem to think this is a sudden, recent backpedaling from a previous absolutist view on free speech. However, Musk has been promoting the "freedom of speech" vs "freedom of reach" distinction for a while, at least months before his takeover, including describing how such a policy should be implemented at Twitter. Here's one example quote from June, 2022: “I think there’s this big difference between f…

That analogy doesn’t really fit with the model of Twitter. If we are using the town/time square example, what Elon is describing is the digital version of putting a noise-cancelling box around the people saying “bad” things so that nobody can hear them. A message spreads on Twitter because individuals on Twitter amplify it (with engagement, retweets etc.) which is itself a form of speech: if you say something bad, an…

Twitter is half a content delivery app (getting tweet from you follows) and half a content suggestion app (tweets TW thinks you might like)

In a charitable reading it looks like Elon wants to remove hateful speech from the latter and leave it off the former.

This will allow you to say what you want and to follow who you want. Who ends up in your suggestions has nothing to do with free speech.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#383

Post by lancelot-ru »

proc0 wrote: post #375
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #39

So free speech absolutist is starting to adapt rules which are roughly similar to Twitter's current rules. And those rules are existing for a reason, rules don't popup from a thin air. What a surprise... Now he will figure out that the bloat of microservices and employees was there also for a reason.

There is an inherent contradiction calling censorship = free speech. Censorship of any form is already a violation of free speech, and therefore cannot be free speech itself. That said, no platform can be absolutist or it would devolve into a porn site, however there is a "spirit" of free speech, that is meant to uphold the principle and allow for ANY subject matter to be discussed. This doesn't mean say anything you…

No post body was provided.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#384

Post by PartiallyTyped »

hn_go_brrrrr wrote: post #213
blitzar wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming is simply a form of limiting reach, a twitter ban isnt an internet ban

That's true, except the people pushing to "deplatform" someone are usually trying to get them banned everywhere .

That's not an issue of the platform, that's simple boycotting and companies just have to make the choice of either biting the bullet and keeping them, or banning them. In all this however, lies a question that nobody asked, what's the responsibility of the party getting banned? Why should the person have the right to spill bigotry and hatred without facing any consequences?

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#385

Post by PartiallyTyped »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #22

I'm certainly not a fan of how Musk has handled the Twitter takeover, but this sentiment, "New Twitter policy is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach", seems highly reasonable to me, no? That is, what I find so awful about most social media (and places like YouTube) is how they focus on some of the most anger-inducing content for "engagement". That is, I think the problem is much more their algorithms than wha…

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody heard it, did it fall?

If a person wrote obscenities on twitter and nobody saw them or can discover them, did they write anything? If they did, how do you know when you haven't seen it. If they didn't, how is it different from never writing it in the first place?

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#387

Post by [deleted] »

35amxn35 wrote: post #362
hellfish wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been asked to kill myself countless times, countless people told me they had fucked my mom, etc. But when you go above that There is no going above that. That's what psychological abuse looks like, and you're justifying it to yourself You can have a community that isn't full of passive aggressive people and also not a disgusting shithole. Look at hn as an example. You're only hurting yourself in the long run

Lol fuck no, HN wears me down. 4chan is like having a beer with buddies shooting the shit and throwing some banter. HN is like a forced "after office" with snob coworkers you don't get along with, and you have to tiptoe around the topics and what you say, while HR is around. It has interesting moments, though.

[deleted]

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#388

Post by blitzar »

nomel wrote: post #259
blitzar wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We're told our account will be restored in 12 hours, but the countdown won't begin until we delete the tweet that violates the Twitter Rules." They opted out by not deleting the tweet. Under the new policy the tweet would just not really appear with or without the consent of the user. "We're not deleting anything. Truth is not hate speech. If the cost of telling the truth is the loss of our Twitter account, then so…

> They opted out by not deleting the tweet. This is misleading. They were banned for the tweet. They opted out of removing the tweet, which would lift the ban. In the new policy, they would not be banned for the tweet. The fact that they were banned in the old policy, and would not be banned in the new policy, is irrefutable proof that the policies are very different, which means, by definition, it's not "status quo"…

Were employees who didnt click the "sign up for twitter 2.0 hardcore" banned from their jobs or did they resign?

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#389

Post by hackerlight »

altacc wrote: post #296
phphphphp wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s how Twitter works already — that’s how the “filter bubble” concept is able to exist, you’re only exposed to things in your self-selected bubble. What Elon is describing (as I understand it based on the limited information provided) is restricting reach within your network, i.e: you tweet something bad, the tweet won’t show up on your followers feed.

Basically shadow banning, which a lot of the “anti-woke” brigade have been complaining about for years and thought Musk would stop. Unsurprisingly, it turns out it’s more complicated to run a social media site than some people might think.

Not really. They've been complaining about shadow banning at the account level. Musk explicitly said it would be at the Tweet level.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#390

Post by luckylion »

SantalBlush wrote: post #330
luckylion wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And disallowing someone to live on earth isn't a death sentence. They can always migrate to Mars.

Was this comment transmitted via internet, and are we on Twitter?

The point is a more general one: deplatforming is censorship in all but name because of coordination. You're gone from Twitter, "go build your own", you do and the CDN blocks you, "go build your own", you do and providers don't peer with you.

Limiting reach on the other hand is a much better alternative. I can still communicate with other experts about the inconvenient truth that cows are not real, I just don't pop up in your search when you search for "where does milk come from".

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