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Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#271

Post by a123b456c »

eej71 wrote: post #269
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

I'm an American and I think one mistake we Americans make is that we think we are very direct, but there is a lot of indirectness in some of our communication habits. This is particularly true in other parts of the country. As a native born midwestern, there are some indirect habits there and I'd say the west coast as its own too. So we're mostly direct, but there is some indirectness that we are at times blind to.

We're usually direct when we're positive, so long as it doesn't cost us anything.

Try to get a direct negative response in USA, good luck.

I only realized the indirectness of my second sentence after I wrote it.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#272

Post by roxgib »

awillen wrote: post #232
BeetleB wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no shortage of such people - I've encountered a bunch. And yes, it's always a pain in the workplace. In my experience, this strategy: > Know this I would try to formulate as simple and direct a question as I could, but always the answer would be to a tangential, often more basic question. Always fails with them. At some point, you have to become humble enough to realize that your approach is flawed and look…

Or just keep hammering away with the same question until you get an answer. "What's 2+2"? In response, the person explains how addition is. "Okay, thanks for that context, but I don't think we ever actually got to the original question - what's 2+2?" The person tells you a story about something cute their kid did when learning addition. "Again, I think we're getting off track - can you please tell me what 2+2 is?" If…

Unfortunately it's not always socially appropriate to do this, no matter how annoying the other person is being.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#273

Post by yamtaddle »

jimt1234 wrote: post #132
willcipriano wrote: post #11

Lots of people are afraid to say "I don't know" in my experience. Although, sometimes people ask me a question where I have to work out in my head what the answer is and it feels weird to sit there in silence for 15 seconds as I do so.

A mentor of mine once told me to never be afraid to say these powerful words: _"I don't get it."_ I've said that in countless meetings and technical discussions, and I've found 2 typical outcomes: The person talking doesn't get it, either; they're just hand-waving. Or, others in the room/discussion also don't get it but were afraid to ask (they often thank me later for speaking up).

I make a point of being forthright when I don't understand something, or am not familiar with what someone's talking about, both at work and among friends. As far as I know it has never hurt me, and I've often had people follow up with sentiments like, "oh thank god, I thought I was just dumb since everyone else seemed to get it".

It's pretty damn uncommon for me to have been the only one in the room who didn't understand, and surprisingly often it turns out some of the others thought they understood, but a little digging prompted by my question or chain of questions reveals they in fact did not, so speaking up helps avoid problems later.

It's worth noting that if you're the only one who spots some problem (or potential/opportunity) with an idea or plan or approach, that can feel a lot like being the only one who's not following ("why is everyone else nodding along? What am I not getting?"), but in fact it means you understand it better than anyone else present and really, really need to say something.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#274

Post by zwkrt »

eej71 wrote: post #269
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

I'm an American and I think one mistake we Americans make is that we think we are very direct, but there is a lot of indirectness in some of our communication habits. This is particularly true in other parts of the country. As a native born midwestern, there are some indirect habits there and I'd say the west coast as its own too. So we're mostly direct, but there is some indirectness that we are at times blind to.

As a mildly autistic person who grew up in the Midwest, my understanding is that it is not at all direct haha. East coast is much more abrasive and easier to get. If someone things you’re an ass they’ll let you know. And you can let them know why they’re wrong in a loud back-and forth. Then laugh and get a drink.

In the Midwest people are too polite to say anything. Many midwesterners will bear an annoyance for years before speaking up as they are afraid of offending.

On the west coast if you’re an ass people will just stop interacting with you. You just won’t be invited anymore. The lack of interaction is the interaction.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#276

Post by bacon_waffle »

m_fayer wrote: post #104

I am, charitably, a pretty decent developer. I also have what I think most would agree is a pretty successful career. My career is not built on programming. Rather, it's built on my ability to communicate effectively in writing and in spontaneous speech, and to serve as a translation layer between various parts of an organization. Your frustration is my opportunity. In my experience, few people without the training o…

How do you suggest others find people like you to work with?

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#277

Post by [deleted] »

cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#278

Post by wildrhythms »

Zvez wrote: post #257
thom wrote: post #210

I dunno what’s up with these Ask HNs which are utterly transparent humblebrags but in this case, chances are what you think is clear communication lacks a lot of context and nuance, and despite obviously feeling superior to them, you’re missing or ignoring important information that people want you to possess.

This. I've seen to many times how some people ask direct question which doesn't have simple answer. So they instead get answer with some context, questions and conditional statements. It happens often when question goes through 'occupation boundaries'. Eg you are manager (judging by 'my experience is with SWEs') and you ask 'simple' direct question from swe "can you implement this feature". And instead you get wall o…

Indeed, any SWE manager asking 'Can you implement this?' and not expecting a wall of followup questions, conditionals, and background context is out of their depth.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#279

Post by roxgib »

I'm an instructor at a coding bootcamp, and for my own sanity I've made teaching students to communicate clearly a priority. Honestly most of the time it's just laziness, and I can improve their communication massively by telling them to do things like formatting code snippets correctly, using the correct and precise terminology, replacing pronouns with the actual thing, and even just using complete sentences (this one kills me...).

Switching from verbal to written communication, or vice versa, can sometimes be helpful. Often when asked a complex question it's difficult to answer on the spot, not because they don't know the answer but because they need to organise their thoughts to explain it to you, or are trying think of any other information they might have forgotten, or other stuff. So a written answer they can compose might be easier.

Sometimes your simple question is not so simple, and doesn't have a clear cut answer. You do need to be open to that.

Of course sometimes people are not answering in good faith, and sometimes you're talking to a customer service drone, or even an actual AI responder, who are literally just choosing answers from a dropdown menu and not really reading what you've written.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#280

Post by yamazakiwi »

tnel77 wrote: post #264
nolok wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us frenchmen, on a world scale, tend to be direct, realist and pessimist. So american optimism is really jarring at first until you get used to it.

I went on a cruise and met some Canadians (they told me). I noticed they were speaking French and said “Is that French you’re speaking?” “Yes.” “That’s really cool! What part of Canada are you from?” “The part that speaks French.” I just frowned and walked off as it was meant to be a polite question. An educated guess would have said that they were from “the French speaking part of Canada,” but I guess they didn’t li…

I wouldn't be able to tell if they were being cheeky or avoiding small-talk in that instance.

I could be wrong but as a Non-French speaker I've heard that French banter is a little snide or pedantic in nature on purpose but generally not meant to be mean-spirited. Kind of like when a friend says "No Shit Sherlock" but with less enthusiasm.

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