Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#211

Post by ambicapter » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

jrmg wrote: post #35

f1shy wrote: post #14

YES. Absolutely! Many people seem to totally lack the capability of understanding simple questions. I often have to ask yes/no questions, and even then I have to say "please answer yes or no". Then I have to go beating 1 bit information at the time... really frustrating, specially with people with master or even PhD degrees! Ok, where I'm now it seems a PhD can be bought around the corner for 2 cents. In my experienc…

Many people seem to totally lack the capability of understanding simple questions. I often have to ask yes/no questions, and even then I have to say "please answer yes or no". Then I have to go beating 1 bit information at the time... In my experience of sometimes being on the other side of these conversations, the problem is that the person asking for ‘yes/no’ answers is exhibiting a lack of understanding of the sub…

You can do that by interrupting and asking them questions. The place to teach them is not by trying to backdoor what you think is important into the answer to some other question that they are asking. They will feel like you're being deceptive, because you are.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#212

Post by madcaptenor » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:37 PM UTC

dcminter wrote: post #140

Izkata wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not an English native speaker myself So your posts don't really give this away to me, except for the dropped "have"/"has" that GP pointed out (I've seen this a lot from people who learned English as a second language, though I'm not confident enough to guess what your first language is). But it does give me two additional ideas that from a quick scroll downwards I don't think others have suggested: Language or…

Early in my career I had an issue with some Indian colleagues who were using a little head wiggle that means "yes" or "go on" in that context, but to me at the time seemed more like a shrug or a "maybe". An observing colleague later explained to me - he said he enjoyed seeing me nod more and more vigorously and explaining my point in more and more detail as I unconsciously tried to elicit the expected "missing" nod o…

I have had to make a conscious effort to remember this with Indian colleagues.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#213

Post by Macha » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

awb wrote: post #27

Here are some altruistic reasons these events might occur: > - don't directly address the point of your question / provide a much complex answer (or even worse, a non-answer) to a simple question > - don't stay focused to the point of the discussion I often dive deeper if the question itself raises suspicions that the question asker might not fully understand the topic. For example, if someone asked: "can you unbatch…

> - don't directly address the point of your question / provide a much complex answer (or even worse, a non-answer) to a simple question

If you ask me "how do I foo the bars?" 2 days ago, "how do I foo the bazs?" yesterday and now are asking "How do I foo the foobars?", it is easier for me to explain the information you need to handle that question rather than handle each time you need it incidentally.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#214

Post by hellfish » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

m_fayer wrote: post #104

I am, charitably, a pretty decent developer. I also have what I think most would agree is a pretty successful career. My career is not built on programming. Rather, it's built on my ability to communicate effectively in writing and in spontaneous speech, and to serve as a translation layer between various parts of an organization. Your frustration is my opportunity. In my experience, few people without the training o…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#215

Post by boatsie » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:44 PM UTC

Do you ever watch political debates? The answers to many questions there are totally nonsensical. So probably the same reason is just “politics”.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#216

Post by layer8 » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:44 PM UTC

lightbendover wrote: post #116

layer8 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but at least in the nonpolitical context I wouldn’t assume conscious intent without very clear evidence of it. The greatest fallacy is assuming to know what people are actually thinking, without them saying it. People tend to vastly overestimate their insight into other people’s minds.

> nonpolitical context Humans talking to each other in a business setting (I'm assuming nobody in this thread is talking about casual conversations that happen outside of work) is inherently political. You are either positioning or being a passive onlooker. If a conversation is only filled with the latter then nothing can possibly get accomplished (which, to be fair, is not an uncommon outcome for a meeting). > The g…

I guess my experience with work conversations is different from yours. I wouldn’t characterize them as political. As far as “positioning” goes, you’re always positioning yourself in one way or other, in any kind of conversation, similar to how one can’t not communicate.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#217

Post by geofft » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:48 PM UTC

This is not pointlessly-spent energy! It is part of the job of software engineering, in much the same way as fixing compiler errors and debugging is part of the job of software engineering. Your work isn't done just because you have a program that makes sense to you.

Think about technical discussions as a thing that you need to spend extended amounts of time and energy on - probably more than programming, once you get senior enough as an individual contributor.

(So, yes, I think it's a lack of skill, largely because of a lack of recognition that it's a skill worth developing. I can't say whether the "blame" is yours or theirs, but it is highly likely that everyone has a lot of room to get better at it.)

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#218

Post by vaidhy » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

Would this answer suffice? No, people are people, no, maybe, maybe?

In my mind, this would be a stupid answer to a question that requires introspection and maybe also take time to explain why I think what I think and potentially, other beliefs that could be impacted by making a stand on this view.

Technical discussions are similar - you want to explain why you think it is so.. After all, if the question were so simple as to have a very simple answer, why would you ask it in the first place? You also want to point out other things that can be impacted by the answer or by each of the decision arms. Sometime, lack of clarity also comes from unstated assumptions of what you know and what others think you know.. but if someone makes that assumption, you are going to say they are not directly addressing the point.

I think it would help in thinking conversation is a 2-way street... you provide appropriate noises and feedback to get what you want, while listening to answers.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#219

Post by jimjimjim » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

Why aren’t you in the nba? Why can’t you fly a commercial airplane? Why can’t you fix 19th century pocket watches?

People are different? They have different strengths and weaknesses.

Some of the best developers I’ve ever worked with communicate differently. Eg One guy hardly spoke but was genuinely a nice guy and was a math genius that turned out awesome code.

Maybe it’s YOU that has to change your communication strategy when talking to other people

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#220

Post by tomg » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

awb wrote: post #27

Here are some altruistic reasons these events might occur: > - don't directly address the point of your question / provide a much complex answer (or even worse, a non-answer) to a simple question > - don't stay focused to the point of the discussion I often dive deeper if the question itself raises suspicions that the question asker might not fully understand the topic. For example, if someone asked: "can you unbatch…

> For example, if someone asked: "can you unbatch those 1k RPCs?"

"Can we do _________?" is the worst question to ask me as an engineer. Like, yes, we probably _can_ do literally almost anything, with enough hours and money. But what's the budget? What really is _______?

Eg: If it's "analytics to a page", what do we want to track? Where does the data go? How do people view the data? I need to know the answer to those questions, plus the "budget", before even entertaining a yes or no answer. Which I think sounds like I'm beating around the bush by asking, but I'm not! :)