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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#191

Post by derefr »

darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

“Build a local clone” — the obvious answer is that both Instagram and Snapchat already have; and that nobody wants to switch. If only the US blocked TikTok, that’d just mean there’d still be a TikTok that every other western country has access to except the US, full of content interesting to Westerners. People with Android devices would just sideload it, and use VPNs to access it if necessary.

The less-obvious answer: TikTok is the local clone, in a sense. It’s a separate app from the Chinese Douyin app.

Personally, I’d suggest copying China’s own strategy here: tell ByteDance that if they want to operate in the US, it has to be through a contract with a non-owned US company staffed by US citizens. Essentially making TikTok into an American company that just happens to license some Chinese software IP.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#192

Post by samatman »

thesuitonym wrote: post #158
samatman wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should have rules that include forbidding any Chinese company from selling SaaS or social media until CCP takes the Great Firewall down. They've made a pariah internet and they should stay there. Suit you? Suits me.

So your response to the Great Firewall being bad is to... implement one of our own?

I see a sharp difference between preventing Chinese IP addresses from accessing whatever they would like, and allowing Chinese corporations to profit from the West's liberty while denying it to their subjects.

So, no, that is not my response at all. There is no technology involved in kicking these corporations out of the civilized world, just political will.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#193

Post by hokumguru »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #167
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

I mean the US is just as guilty of that, with e.g. Facebook and companies using it manipulating global politics; see for example Cambridge Analytica and the list of elections they influenced [0] through nasty means. There's also the Snowden revelations that revealed the US security services have free access to social media; if you want surveillance, that's the one. And let's not even start about the psyops that the U…

Facebook did not intentionally share information with CA. That was a data breach and was corrected after made known.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#194

Post by est »

computerfriend wrote: post #188
est wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain Linkedin.com then? It also works 100% well in China.

It's shut down. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58911297

The abomination Linkedin.cn (force redirects, ads, bloat features) was shutdown but Linkedin.com is always accessible.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#196

Post by derefr »

pjc50 wrote: post #187
solardev wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China isn't going to listen to your rules. Ban whatever you want, Chinese companies don't have to comply, and don't have to tell you when they're not complying... Unless you audit every foreign app's source code and sign its binaries, those laws are meaningless. And if you do that you're really just swapping foreign advertising for domestic wiretapping. shrug Lose-lose.

> Unless you audit every app's source code and sign its binaries Isn't that called "an app store"? Good luck getting non-signed binaries on an iPhone. My point is that if TikTok is somehow able to escape its sandbox and perform surveillance, that's a fault in the sandbox, and there should be a general process for handling this otherwise you just have to deal with the next week's app "TokTik".

You don’t need to escape a sandbox to monitor people’s communications that are done through your own backend servers.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#197

Post by josefresco »

derefr wrote: post #191
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

“Build a local clone” — the obvious answer is that both Instagram and Snapchat already have; and that nobody wants to switch. If only the US blocked TikTok, that’d just mean there’d still be a TikTok that every other western country has access to except the US, full of content interesting to Westerners. People with Android devices would just sideload it, and use VPNs to access it if necessary. The less-obvious answer…

> nobody wants to switch

There's no reason to switch now. Ban TikTok and people will switch.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#198

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

angio wrote: post #123
phpisthebest wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would make it as a free trade argument. Trade is a 2 way street, if our companies can not compete there, then their companies should not be able to compete here.

American companies are allowed to operate in China, as long as they follow local regulation. If TikTok behaviour is concerning (it is, like google/facebook/etc are also concerning), then introduce regulations that protect users' privacy and only then ban TikTok.

The local regulation is to parter with a Chinese company to operate the service. Giving that company a substantial percentage of revenue.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#199

Post by zthrowaway »

bbzealot wrote: post #95
hnrodey wrote: post #65

Trump: TikTok is a national security threat! America: XENOPHOBE! Biden: TikTok is a national security threat. America: SHUT IT DOWN!

You’re claiming that a relevant amount of Americans accused Trump of being Xenophobe due to his remarks on TikTok. Do you have any source to back that claim?

- https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/trump-tiktok-ban...

- https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/7/23/21334871/tiktok-ban-...

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/08/10/banning-ti...

- https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/can-the-trump-admini...

- https://www.wired.com/story/trump-tiktok-drama-security-dist...

There's plenty more.

Look at previous threads about Trump wanting to ban TikTok on hackernews and reddit.

Source: Being online and/or watching TV for the past 4 years...

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#200

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

max51 wrote: post #87
karp773 wrote: post #20

The very fact that not a single western social network is permitted to operate in China is a sufficient reason to ban TikTok in America.

If you don't like the chinese government, why do you want yours to imitate them?!

In this thread: people who don't understand the value of free trade agreements.

We should just open up everything and hope everyone plays fair!

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