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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#151

Post by wollsmoth »

plgonzalezrx8 wrote: post #84
hnrodey wrote: post #65

Trump: TikTok is a national security threat! America: XENOPHOBE! Biden: TikTok is a national security threat. America: SHUT IT DOWN!

Call me whatever you want, but Trump had a LOT of things right. He was just massively inarticulate and his persona made it easy for people to disagree with him. But yeah, he tried to shut it down and the democrats just reverted everything just to say they reverted something trump did. This report is nothing new and it has been known for a long time. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-reverses-...

I wasn't necessarily opposed to his call for that. But the whole idea of somehow segmenting the app in a way that would somehow make tiktok better for us seemed kinda impractical. Just ban it or don't. If we ban it someone will make a clone in the west, or IG reels will just take over.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#152

Post by trident5000 »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

One predatory thing TikTok does that app stores should have banned ages ago is they repeatedly ask you to show them your contacts. The point is for you to slip up that one time and accidently hit "yes" so they can collect all that info. This should not be allowed.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#153

Post by deeblering4 »

TikTok as-is presents a massive attack surface for (d|m)information and worse. And the version available in the US is highly addictive with numerous bubble creating feedback loops. The amount of engagement and time spent on the app is incredible.

The creators know this and provide an alternate version called Douyin used domestically which optimizes for educational content and has additional rules/safeguards

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58625934

I don't want to harp on which country has which political motive, but it's pretty cut and dry to see that the service owners export something very different than what is presented domestically.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#154

Post by CyanBird »

dahfizz wrote: post #68
pjc50 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.newsy.com/stories/american-athlete-shares-experi... (and obviously if you're a US national in China you'll pay Chinese and US taxes, because of the weird extraterritorial taxation of the US)

Yes; you are pedantically correct, and missing the point entirely.

But you don't have a point, you just said "x thing is absurd" then proceeded to write a bunch of strawmen arguments which are not applicable

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#155

Post by solardev »

CyanBird wrote: post #143
solardev wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't be able to tell when they're not following the rules.

Just stop moving the goalposts while discussing and people might take you more seriously

Err, pretty sure that was the entire premise of my post -- that you wouldn't be able to tell when they're not complying unless you audit and sign all their code before distribution.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#156

Post by deely3 »

luckylion wrote: post #86
nivenkos wrote: post #54

I hope the EU bans Facebook, etc. in response.

The US can probably replace TikTok with something "homegrown" that's sufficiently like TikTok that people will be happy to use it once it becomes widely adopted. What could replace Facebook, TikTok etc in Europe? Do we just shut down the internet because it's run by third parties who don't have our best interests at heart?

Strange arguments. Why do we need to replace Facebook, TikTok? No need to shut down, just block malicious sites, thats all.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#157

Post by superfist »

uniqueuid wrote: post #48
mromanuk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't banning a social network undermine the democratic principles you mention?

Not in principle. Practically all democratic systems have provisions to defend against subversion of their core principles. Those provisions may be designed to safeguard institutions, processes such as elections and regulate information flow. It's important to remember that the US concept of "free speech" as an absolute right is very untypical, and that it also has limits due to being narrow in its scope. Of course,…

Collapse of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in XVIII as form of proto-democracy can be here good case study. It show us how authoritarian systems can exploit democratic system.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#158

Post by thesuitonym »

samatman wrote: post #67
pjc50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

We should have rules that include forbidding any Chinese company from selling SaaS or social media until CCP takes the Great Firewall down. They've made a pariah internet and they should stay there. Suit you? Suits me.

So your response to the Great Firewall being bad is to... implement one of our own?

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#159

Post by Izkata »

CyanBird wrote: post #143
solardev wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't be able to tell when they're not following the rules.

Just stop moving the goalposts while discussing and people might take you more seriously

...they haven't moved any goalposts...

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#160

Post by AbrahamParangi »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

Rules are great but rules are not always great. Sometimes the particularities of a situation are more important than the system of rules itself. There is a reason law becomes more like, a guideline in war.
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