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India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

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Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#171

Post by Robotbeat »

anony999 wrote: post #137
realgeniushere wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reckon it takes the market power of an Apple to hold out on proprietary charging ports. Only reason they held out is 1) keep their accessory licensing revenue stream and 2) introduce friction with Android users (see iMessage). Almost no one else has the kind of market power to do that without pissing users off to their detriment. Aside from Apple, the voluntary standards process was working. No one else was still r…

There are still laptops with various charger types not to mention digital cameras and other electronics that could use usb-c pd but refuse to adopt it. I think the law should be expanded to any kind of electronic device that whose power requirements can be satisfied by the usb-c specifications.

Isn’t USB-C at high power kind of expensive per watt?

USB-C is not royalty-free, either.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#172

Post by anony999 »

anshumankmr wrote: post #9

I have a gaming laptop, that won't work with USB C, right? EDIT: looks like that's not going to change

If your gaming laptops needs more than 240w you could use multiple 240w chargers. I believe gaming laptops use multiple chargers anyway.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#173

Post by Lanolderen »

anony999 wrote: post #151
Lanolderen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. Phones charge pretty quickly no matter what you plug them into, at least in my experience (I'm not a phone gamer so ymmv), whereas I've seen more than one laptop lose battery while charging if doing something demanding. If I carried an adapter I'd probably have my charger with me to be honest and I don't know anyone nice enough to carry adapters f…

>> I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. What kind of tablet needs more than 240w ? I think that's what Alienware uses as well so I doubt you will ever need more than that. Not to mention that the trend going towards more efficient electronics/chips etc.

A poor take on my part. I admittedly have zero experience with tablets. I just assume due to the form factor and price that high end tablets are essentially a touch screen laptop without the keyboard.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#174

Post by nfin »

ahartmetz wrote: post #170
speleding wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In its first incarnation the industry proposed micro USB as a charging standard. I think we can agree that's a pretty poor choice, connectors that break easily, only go in one way, and low power. So Apple was right to ignore it. We would have been stuck with micro USB for eternity if it wasn't for Apple. I realise they may not have objected out of the kindness of their hart, but good thing they did.

> We would have been stuck with micro USB for eternity if it wasn't for Apple Amending laws takes much less time than eternity. Lawmakers are people, they can process information and make changes when appropriate. You can be sure that the industry will not forget to remind them when a change seems sensible.

true, but what you then loose is “natural selection”.

Why?

Because either a new standard is not allowed. Or it is allowed, but then highly probably just one… and the central planning way. One standard/product is worked on, one is accepted as the successo.

No selection in the wild of the one that survives (depending of what we talk about, the survivor is sometimes the one that is technically better, sometimes it is the one that is cheaper, or faster in bandwith or latency or prettier, or …).

This sometimes work ok for 1-2 successors, but the more times pass by, the more central planing (or lack of free market) fails.

If one is very honest it has to see both sides of it.

Both has their pros and cons (not equally weighted though).

The regulated way has to be done as rarely as possible (very hard to decide when it is a good idea…)

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#175

Post by NullPrefix »

anony999 wrote: post #166
rozenmd wrote: post #47

I feel like EU and India are missing the obvious here - Apple will just remove the ability to charge via cable, and create even more e-waste and waste energy.

The issue with wireless charging is the waste of energy and lack of fast charging.

fast charging is bad for the batteries

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#176

Post by 411111111111111 »

realgeniushere wrote: post #168
makeitdouble wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is way too dismissive of the govs attitude, which is to reevaluate the situation every X years, and way too optimistic toward the industry, which couldn’t converge to anything without getting forced to do it. The “clear victor” only emerged because of the law passed. For crying out loud, USB-C was created by Apple and look at the situation we’re still in.

What? USB-C won aside from one holdout. Apple wasn’t even trying to get other companies to adopt Lightning.

It won because the legislative interfered. Apple just couldn't be bothered to play ball while it wasn't outright mandated, which is why we're now in this shitty situation.

And as mkbhd said a while ago, it's extremely unlikely that apple will introduce USB-C now as well. They'll likely pivot to wireless charging exclusively and get rid of all external connectors.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#177

Post by speleding »

ahartmetz wrote: post #170
speleding wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In its first incarnation the industry proposed micro USB as a charging standard. I think we can agree that's a pretty poor choice, connectors that break easily, only go in one way, and low power. So Apple was right to ignore it. We would have been stuck with micro USB for eternity if it wasn't for Apple. I realise they may not have objected out of the kindness of their hart, but good thing they did.

> We would have been stuck with micro USB for eternity if it wasn't for Apple Amending laws takes much less time than eternity. Lawmakers are people, they can process information and make changes when appropriate. You can be sure that the industry will not forget to remind them when a change seems sensible.

They European Union still does not have a single 230V power plug, decades after being founded. The industry has been asking for it since forever. You, sir, are an optimist.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#178

Post by ho_schi »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #75
ho_schi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. This is a short/mid-term directive and as well a power-plug standard. Which is common across the world for decades. We all happily live with that already. Anyway, your basic idea is leading in a good direction and shall cover all important features: * Replacement parts for 5 (smartphone), 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30 (plane) years * Open specification for replacement parts (manufacturer goes out of business, thir…

And this is why they don't let tech people write laws...

We wouldn't write every year a new additional law and instead apply one template based generic? And use tests before the high-court will rip it in pieces? And put the changing details in regulations?

Aside from that. I still love the first paragraph of the German traffic law:

    (1) Participation in road traffic requires constant caution and mutual consideration.
    (2) Anyone participating in traffic must behave in such a way that no other person is harmed, endangered or obstructed or inconvenienced more than is unavoidable under the circumstances.
The most important, sane and violated law. I mean? You don't need even one more paragraph. I says "Don't be a mad. Care about others. Be nice to each other.".

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#179

Post by speleding »

realgeniushere wrote: post #127
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we already know what happens when a common port is not mandated. Seriously, before this law was put in place, Europe had been asking companies to agree on a common charging port for more than a decade. The first Memorandum of Understanding on the subject was signed in 2009. Amusingly Apple did sign it before deciding to simply ignore it. That was followed by a directive in 2014 and an impact assessment in 201…

I reckon it takes the market power of an Apple to hold out on proprietary charging ports. Only reason they held out is 1) keep their accessory licensing revenue stream and 2) introduce friction with Android users (see iMessage). Almost no one else has the kind of market power to do that without pissing users off to their detriment. Aside from Apple, the voluntary standards process was working. No one else was still r…

Actually there were some solid arguments against USB-C, most importantly that it's not IP rated and therefore is not allowed to be used in kitchen or bathroom equipment.

It would be so much nicer if we got one standard that covers everything.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#180

Post by ttepasse »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #154
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of EU's decision is to repeatedly evaluate the standards every N or so years; where N I don't think anyone has any complains about the physical connector, the issue is the specs for USB. USB-C looks to be the end of history though for smart phones, at least for apple. Apple said they will comply, but never confirmed inclusion of USB-C, this is important as there is a clause that allows mobile devices without a p…

What does it mean by consider it? If they couldn't reach conclusion in 5 years, will this law be void? I haven't read anywhere this law has an expiration date

> With respect to radio equipment capable of being recharged via wired charging, the Commission is empowered to adopt delegated acts in accordance with Article 44 to amend Part I of Annex Ia in the light of scientific and technological progress or market developments, and to ensure the minimum common interoperability between radio equipment and their charging devices, as well as to improve consumer convenience, to avoid market fragmentation and to reduce environmental waste, by: > (a) modifying, adding or removing categories or classes of radio equipment; > (b) modifying, adding or removing technical specifications, including references and descriptions, in relation to the charging receptacle(s) and charging communication protocol(s), for each category or class of radio equipment concerned. > The Commission shall continuously assess market developments, market fragmentation and technical progress with the view to identify categories or classes of radio equipment capable of being recharged via wired charging for which the inclusion in Part I of Annex Ia would lead to significant consumer convenience and reduction of environmental waste. > The Commission shall report such assessment to the European Parliament and to the Council, for the first time by [3 years after the date of entry-into-force of this Directive] and every 5 years thereafter, and adopt delegated acts pursuant to Article 3, paragraph 4, first subparagraph, point a) accordingly.
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