Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 141 posts

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#11

Post by Sakos »

chitowneats wrote: post #7
eastbound wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, we tell lies, to people who pretend to believe them. Everyone lies and we know it, our companies have mottos and everyone knows they’re fluff, and we teach kids to “thrive in ambiguity”, which is a beautiful phrase I’ve found on a job offer and which I have found symptomatic of our economy. I still wonder what it was like to live in ex-RDA. Did people tell lies that others pretended to believe?

ya hehe I had to be it's what reputations are made of, to some extent I feel bad for those who get f*** by it by this dumb game we woke westerners play where we say all the right shiboleths and so everyone likes us

> by this dumb game we woke westerners play where we say all the right shiboleths and so everyone likes us

Unfortunately, the people who treat it like a game like SBF are the ones who make it in business and in politics. There's no need to have ethics if it's sufficient just to act like you do. Reminds me of Kyrsten Sinema who played the part until she had the job.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#13

Post by tenpies »

rqtwteye wrote: post #3

The same can be said for things like diversity statements. You know exactly what you are supposed to say and any deviation will be punished . It’s just a formality you have to perform correctly.

The problem is that a non-trivial segment of the population does believe it with zealous devotion. They've attended the diversity seminaries, taken the oaths, and there is no off-ramp for their faith.

The other problem is politicians cannot differentiate between performative displays and actual values. The end result is that you see diversity quotas elevated above all other priorities and criteria.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#14

Post by ehnto »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

Forgiveness as a kind of mourning makes sense, but is counter-intuitive. I think we've come to regard "forgiveness" as inevitably ending with reconsiliation. But perhaps, more often, it shouldnt. That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature. I have moved on. Our ability to forgive has, perhaps, been distorted by the perception that it's an act o…

That is how I see forgiveness also, a letting go of the issue at hand, almost a delegation of the reconciliation to the other party. It's their problem to think over now.

I have a past business partner who more or less, stole all our gear and fled. I let them know how I felt, but told them I wouldn't be actioning it any further than that. I let them know the social consequences of their actions were absolute, there's no way I'd treat them as a friend or work with them again, but I understood why they felt they needed to do it and I hope they find themselves in a better place.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#15

Post by drooby »

Zanni wrote: post #9
chitowneats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ya hehe I had to be it's what reputations are made of, to some extent I feel bad for those who get f*** by it by this dumb game we woke westerners play where we say all the right shiboleths and so everyone likes us

Note to down voters: this is a (relevant) direct quote from SBF's interview in Vox. [0] [0] https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-frie...

Whoa, this guys is a straight up sociopath

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#16

Post by mattgreenrocks »

Whoever figures out a secular distillation of the concept of grace is going to be very, very successful in community-building. The lack of it is painfully apparent, and it offers something to both the accused and the accusers.

Now, whether people actually want that from others in these cases, or are merely enjoying the use of power a little too much, is another discussion.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#17

Post by washadjeffmad »

themaninthedark wrote: post #6

An apology is useless if it is not accompanied by a change in behavior. Actually, worse than useless as it is an insult. I know what I am doing is wrong but I am not changing. Large public apologies are performance art.

Apologies don't necessarily imply wrongdoing.

An apology can be issued to acknowledge inconvenience or understanding, or to indicate someone is being heard. You can apologize for not changing or for disagreeing.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#18

Post by ehnto »

wernercd wrote: post #10

Apologizing to a mob never makes sense. You just make the other mob angry and most of the current mob doesn't think you're authentic anyways. Or, as the article says, "It was either not enough or, oh, my God, please stop.". Trying to placate a mob is pointless. Be authentic (apologize if you really mean it), otherwise stand your ground and stay still. The mob will move on eventually. They are fickle and easily distra…

A great way to think about any discussion on the public internet to be honest. Everything you say on twitter is to a mob, and within that mob is a very diverse group of people, not all of them working with the same perspective or even the same context and goals as you.

There's that joke about using accidentally using Personality A with Friend Group B; with the modern social internet, you're talking to every friend group at the same time and I think that's why we have such defensive pretense, placation and weasel wording going on. You lose all nuance, and you also lose benefit of the doubt.

I think that's what is missing on broadcast platforms like FB/Twitter et al, and why Discord has been such a hit. Discord gives you discrete friend groups, so you can form deeper more nuanced dialogues about topics over a long period of time.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#19

Post by weberer »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

Forgiveness as a kind of mourning makes sense, but is counter-intuitive. I think we've come to regard "forgiveness" as inevitably ending with reconsiliation. But perhaps, more often, it shouldnt. That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature. I have moved on. Our ability to forgive has, perhaps, been distorted by the perception that it's an act o…

>We punish not to humiliate as an act of vengence

No, I think that's exactly how the Twitter mob operates. These people treat politics as some sort of religious war.

Post reply on HN