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India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

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Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#121

Post by realgeniushere »

kmlx wrote: post #110
realgeniushere wrote: post #104

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through…

> one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing very strange reading this since i still buy electrical devices produced in 2022 with micro-usb, custom plugs, or whatever was cheapest when they assembled the device.

The law does not apply to all electronic devices. The law only applies to consumer handhelds. That’s mobile phones, tablets, e-readers, earbuds, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers. And at a later date, laptops. It’s hard to think of any popular devices in those categories, aside from Apple’s phones and earbuds, that don’t ship with standard USB chargers.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#122

Post by Fiahil »

wongarsu wrote: post #38
Fiahil wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inductive charging, don't be silly.

Inductive charging doesn't count. You can get out of the USB-C requirement by having only inductive charging, but as soon as you have a physical connector that supports charging one of them has to be USB-C. (At least in the EU version of the requirement)

> You can get out of the USB-C requirement by having only inductive charging

That's a nice loophole there :)

Anyway, it's not like USB-C isn't good enough and that they can't change the rules if/when a new connector get enough support. And to get enough support, it most likely means that it has to be compatible (in some way) with USB-C. That's a nice feature.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#123

Post by themitigating »

mlindner wrote: post #27
nullcipher wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the whataboutism? Just cheer the progress.

Mandating standards by laws isn't progress. It holds the future back. This and the EU will be looked back on as a disastrous piece of legislation in the future. It's amazing how nearsighted these governments are being. Standards are universally created by industry organically, not created by governments.

You don't get how it works here. We are libertarians except for regulating social media, bitcoin, right to repair, usb standards, etc.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#124

Post by realgeniushere »

Havoc wrote: post #120
realgeniushere wrote: post #104

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through…

It won’t be permanent just like the old school usb micro one didn’t prevent usb-c from coming to be

They are not remotely similar. The old micro usb policy could be complied with by shipping a little adapter with your product. This one cannot be.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#125

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

realgeniushere wrote: post #104

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through…

Because we already know what happens when a common port is not mandated.

Seriously, before this law was put in place, Europe had been asking companies to agree on a common charging port for more than a decade.

The first Memorandum of Understanding on the subject was signed in 2009. Amusingly Apple did sign it before deciding to simply ignore it. That was followed by a directive in 2014 and an impact assessment in 2018.

Despite these repeated warnings, Apple spent the decade lobbying against a common port while collecting a tidy sum with the Made For Iphone initiative.

The EU didn’t mandate by hubris. It just had to. We need a law because if we don’t have one there will always be companies reverting to proprietary ports. They just can’t resist the easy money.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#126

Post by old_hat »

kmlx wrote: post #119
qwerty456127 wrote: post #111

I am afraid Apple is more likely to remove wired charging altogether than to introduce USB in iPhone, this may be enough to game the law which explicitly says only "devices which support wired charging" have to comply. I just hope the EU lawyers will notice "wireless" MagSafe only replaces the connection interface (which should be USB-C) while still using a wire.

what exactly is the problem with wireless charging?

On average it takes about double the power to charge the device. Coils aren't always properly aligned, and it's not as efficient in the first place.

If we adopt this tech en masse, we'll need to build some more power plants.

https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-...

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#127

Post by realgeniushere »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #125
realgeniushere wrote: post #104

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through…

Because we already know what happens when a common port is not mandated. Seriously, before this law was put in place, Europe had been asking companies to agree on a common charging port for more than a decade. The first Memorandum of Understanding on the subject was signed in 2009. Amusingly Apple did sign it before deciding to simply ignore it. That was followed by a directive in 2014 and an impact assessment in 201…

I reckon it takes the market power of an Apple to hold out on proprietary charging ports. Only reason they held out is 1) keep their accessory licensing revenue stream and 2) introduce friction with Android users (see iMessage). Almost no one else has the kind of market power to do that without pissing users off to their detriment.

Aside from Apple, the voluntary standards process was working. No one else was still resisting USB-C. Can you name some examples?

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#128

Post by Lanolderen »

constantcrying wrote: post #29
Lanolderen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes although two charge ports doesn't sound impossible and/or especially bad to me. Especially if the port is a brand new standard you'll never be able to borrow a charge cable for from a friend. Would be interested to know how much multiple charge ports affect price/complexity.

Two charging ports do not work on a phone, space is tight in there already. >Especially if the port is a brand new standard you'll never be able to borrow a charge cable for from a friend. The solution to that are adapters.

I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. Phones charge pretty quickly no matter what you plug them into, at least in my experience (I'm not a phone gamer so ymmv), whereas I've seen more than one laptop lose battery while charging if doing something demanding.

If I carried an adapter I'd probably have my charger with me to be honest and I don't know anyone nice enough to carry adapters for others.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#129

Post by pietro72ohboy »

rippercushions wrote: post #44
andybak wrote: post #8

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

This is India, it can take quite a while for legislation to catch up. I recently saw a colleague's customs form for shipping household goods, and the list of itemized goods to declare included Walkmen, digitizers, personal electronic diaries, modems, dictaphones and floppy disks.

I’d argue that listing archaic electronic items on a customs form is the correct way. Law and legal documents should assume a catch-all nature by design to address edge cases and until we can absolutely assure that all Walkman, floppies and similar items are out of public circulation for good, it is wise to list them explicitly on a customs form.

The alternative to this is the usage of “including, but not limited to, phones, mp3 players” which leaves you guessing if something needs to be listed or not.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#130

Post by vinay427 »

kmlx wrote: post #107
japanuspus wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. One example of progress on power outlets I know of is Denmark: Here the non-grounded plug has been compatible with Schuko outlets as used in most of the rest of Northern Europe, and Schuko connectors will fit in the outlets without ground connection. Since most appliances come with Schuko plugs, a decis…

> By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. if only it was this simple. 1. usually power outlets are standardised across countries (but there are countries where this is not the case and you'll find different plugs in the same country). two countries that share a border can have two or more completely different outlets/plugs. 2. power outlets a…

> 3. but the G Plug is known to be one of the best, if not the best electrical plug.

One massive downside of the type G plug (UK, Ireland, etc.) is its size. Most mobile charging adapters for phones or even laptops are 30-80% bigger, in my anecdotal experience, than the type A equivalent. The plug is well-designed from a safety and robustness perspective, and I appreciate that it's far better than the two-prong "Europlug" (for instance) at firmly attaching to a wall outlet, but it really should have been miniaturized.

The type L, J, and B plugs are far more compact as three-prong plugs go, even if they lack the third-prong shutter activation and fuse.

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