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India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

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Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#101

Post by zuhsetaqi »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #86
andybak wrote: post #8

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? All the companies will come together and decide to move to USB D because it's better. As I understand it USB is always backwards compatible so it wouldn't be a problem.

> How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple?

USB-C is by far not adopted by everyone but Apple. There are thousands of devices on Amazon which still use Micro-USB which is as annoying as Apple using Lightning

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#102

Post by WeylandYutani »

constantcrying wrote: post #24
andybak wrote: post #8

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

This is also my problem with this legislation. There is legitimate innovation in connector design. Surely people remember micro USB cables, which weren't really that good. I certainly never would have wanted them to become a mandated standard. While I think USB-C is quite well designed, this legislation makes it extremely hard for a superior standard to arise. The only reason USB-C has any grounds to be a mandated st…

I would argue that a hypothetical "superior standard" that only one manufacturer uses and is not interoperable is neither superior nor standard.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#103

Post by input_sh »

dahfizz wrote: post #69
input_sh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micro USB was the EU standard, you already lived through that. That's why every Android and gadget out there used it, as opposed to 50 other connectors before that on feature phones. Apple found a loophole around it by shipping a dongle with iPhones. With the update to the standard that loophole was closed.

This is often repeated, but wrong. The EU issued a Memorandum of Understanding asking phone manufacturers to use micro B. MoU are not laws, they have no force behind them. Micro B was never required or mandated. It was literally the EU saying "hey guys, please use micro-B on your phone" (with an implicit threat that actual legislation may follow if you don't). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_sup…

I know, I intentionally used the term standard, not a law, but also wanted to keep it short.

I went into more details in my other reply (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653799). Not being an EU policy expert (nor a citizen) I probably got a thing or two wrong and would appreciate corrections.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#104

Post by realgeniushere »

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through Euro and Indian bureaucrats.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#105

Post by StingyJelly »

iinnPP wrote: post #41
DarthNebo wrote: post #5

Also need replaceable batteries or atleast some standardized Li-Ion flat packs

At the very least they can add an environmental tax on anything that is not coming with a removable battery. Then we can stop tossing entire phones in the garbage. I have a Pixel 5. The Pixel 7 isn't even an improvement to me. The fact that my battery is at 15% after the day is done means I am on my last year with the device. I have a Nexus 6 with basically no battery to speak of but it works great still outside of t…

You don't have to toss the phone. You can replace the battery with aftermarket one yourself, pay someone to do it for you or sell the Nexus 6 on second-hand market so that the new owner will deal with it.

There are still legal issues, mainly that the manufacturer does not provide replacement parts and aftermarket ones infringe on manufacturer's intellectual property so you only get ones produced in shady chinese factories and good luck importing them in bugger quantity. What really needs to change are the IP laws so that --when manufacturer fails to provide replacement parts or charges outrageous price-- the IP becomes free-for-all shortly after the product release.

Much bigger problem are blatant anti-repair practices - be it kindle buybacks, sonos "brick your old device to get a discount for new one" or manufacturers pairing parts to the device (looking at you apple) so that the parts refuse to work due to a software-lock. Additional tax or even hard penalization of those practices would make sense. Also it would make sense limiting the reach of DMCA and IP laws to enable users to "break digital locks", modify and distribute modified firmware in order to bypass those arbitrary restrictions imposed by manufacturers.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#106

Post by victorvosk »

realgeniushere wrote: post #104

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through…

Because legislatures are incredibly short sighted and ignorant when it comes to technology. ("Would you like to accept cookies on this site you chose to visit, if not it won't work and you should probably leave")

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#107

Post by kmlx »

japanuspus wrote: post #99
andybak wrote: post #8

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. One example of progress on power outlets I know of is Denmark: Here the non-grounded plug has been compatible with Schuko outlets as used in most of the rest of Northern Europe, and Schuko connectors will fit in the outlets without ground connection. Since most appliances come with Schuko plugs, a decis…

> By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress.

if only it was this simple.

1. usually power outlets are standardised across countries (but there are countries where this is not the case and you'll find different plugs in the same country). two countries that share a border can have two or more completely different outlets/plugs.

2. power outlets are very simple devices. especially compared to usb-c.

3. but the G Plug is known to be one of the best, if not the best electrical plug. even so i think the chance of, for example, Denmark adopting this plug are close to zero.

so it's all very grey.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#109

Post by djbebs »

Acinyx wrote: post #94
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum Nobody is going to put two ports on a phome. Required minimum is the legislated maximum for physical interfaces.

I don't think you understand: It has to be USB-C or better. So if USB-D (or a worse name knowing the consortium) comes out, the idea behind the law is that it should also be allowed _instead_ of a USB-C port. IANAL though, so I am unsure how well they legally described that requirement.

So apple doesnt have to change because their ports are already better?

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#110

Post by kmlx »

realgeniushere wrote: post #104

Given that this whole thing was about forcing one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing, why not sunset these laws in five to ten years? That way, future innovators don’t have to first get this requirement repealed. USB-C is not the be-all end-all of charging ports. Note for example the female connector with the fragile plastic piece in the middle. Better alternatives will emerge but now they have to pass through…

> one bad player, Apple, to do the right thing

very strange reading this since i still buy electrical devices produced in 2022 with micro-usb, custom plugs, or whatever was cheapest when they assembled the device.

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