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How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

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Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#181

Post by bheadmaster »

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #167
bheadmaster wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences. I sincerely doubt that there are scientists questioning whether clockwork elves are real or not. Hallucinations are considered hallucinations because they are seen only by the person who ingested the hallucinogens, and none of the other people who might be present but didn't ingest the hallucinogens. Consistence is crucial to the v…

There is a consistency in people’s experiences with these rituals and places they go to.

Sure, there's some consistency. But compared to the consistency of experience of the real world, it is lacking and full of holes. Not enough to be called "real", in my opinion.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#182

Post by pmoriarty »

BossingAround wrote: post #85
GaryPalmer wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never done Ayahuasca and I am still leaning more to the side that these beings are NOT created by your mind. These experiences are too structured and follow simmilar spiritual themes. If these substances would simply fire random neurons in a brain you would expect more of a delirious/deluded and dream-like state. Also, I think there was some study that showed that psychedelics acutally reduce brain activity inst…

I think it was McKenna who said he believes that because people hear about elves before their trips, they experience them and the experience is fairly similar. Even the name, an elf, is suggestive of the appearance of the creatures.

No one, to my knowledge, talked about "DMT elves" before McKenna. The people who talked about them afterwards were very likely directly or indirectly primed by him to expect to see them, and we all know that expectations can strongly influence what one experiences on psychedelics.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#183

Post by Trasmatta »

saiya-jin wrote: post #144
Trasmatta wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God I know exactly what you mean. There's this feeling that surfaces during the trip that's so familiar and so real and you realize it's always there, but hiding under the surface. And now that you've seen it, you can never quite fully ignore it again. > maybe it's time for me to try something other than waiting for it to burn itself out. It hasn't burnt itself out for me either. I don't think it ever will. But thera…

So it basically allowed you to start the process of reconciliation with oneself, finding balance that was never truly there, being able to work with sore spot that was before hidden too well. You probably felt a bit off before but never went digging and accepted it just as part of you. What a wonderful therapeutic substance, it just doesn't fix everything on its own but requires further work, paving the path for it.

No, that's not what happened.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#184

Post by koonsolo »

saiya-jin wrote: post #127
koonsolo wrote: post #120

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

Wow, you must be one of those few in western society that never touched alcohol, never smoked a cigarette and never consumed sugars! Not that its something to marvel at, but for sure you are a curiosity, just like your kids will be in society. On a more serious note, some drugs do much more good than harm. Some psychedelics have extremely good results when treating hard psychiatric patients with conditions our modern…

I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me.

I'm 43 and never had a cigarette in my mouth, and very happy that I don't have to sit in that disgusting smell in cafes anymore. Do I drink alcohol? Yes. Would I mind if my kids don't drink alcohol? No. I saw alcohol destroy families.

And your statement that somehow I and my kids would be curiosities in society just because we stay away from that shit makes you look really stupid.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#185

Post by nicoco »

Flatcore999 wrote: post #170
nikisweeting wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This maybe your conclusion but stating it as base truth is a pretty uninformed take. DNA was discovered on LSD, among countless other major works in math, science, literature, CS, and other fields. Just Google "things discovered on drugs" or "famous/accomplished people that took drugs", the list is loooong.

DNA was not discovered on LSD: https://psychedelicpress.co.uk/blogs/psychedelic-press-blog/...

Probable confusion with Kary Mullis, the inventor of PCR and LSD advocate. Not the best argument for the safeness of psychedelics though, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis#Views_on_HIV/AIDS_...

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#186

Post by soco »

bheadmaster wrote: post #149
pmoriarty wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am personally very skeptical of the "realness" of anything that happens during a hallucination." Is it a hallucination, though? That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences.

> That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences. I sincerely doubt that there are scientists questioning whether clockwork elves are real or not. Hallucinations are considered hallucinations because they are seen only by the person who ingested the hallucinogens, and none of the other people who might be present but didn't ingest the hallucinogens. Consistence is crucial to the v…

By that definition a recurring dream would be reality - consistence it has, no hallucinogens involved.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#187

Post by soco »

goldenchrome wrote: post #77
vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

I’ve had similar experiences on large doses of mush. I think it’s in your head, but it’s something that your subconscious self really wanted your conscious self to acknowledge. For you, perhaps you are in the habit of “rationalizing” away profound experiences which serves to protect you from being overwhelmed by life. But sometimes you need to be swept away by life and give in to your senses. There’s truth in our sub…

Psychedelics also give the experience of something very unusual, if not extraordinary, which also pushes people towards religion. Because humans have this habit of labeling everything they don't understand as "magic", just everything. Come on humans, really???

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#188

Post by IIAOPSW »

pmoriarty wrote: post #134
IIAOPSW wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience here, in fact I'm sure its all accurate, but I must make the curious observation that I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. Time is skewed, vision gets geometric patterns, stream of consciousness becomes more of an unnavigable white water rapids of consci…

"I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. ... I inevitably start trying to figure out how it works, and the whole trip turns into scientific self experimentation." This sounds like a defense mechanism on a dose low enough that your mind can still defend itself like that. It's possible to take such a…

This reads like the psychedelic equivalent of "true Communism has never been tried." You're saying psychedelics always have whatever emotional effect, and if they seemingly don't well its your fault for putting up a defense mechanism, or actually it did work but you don't remember.

Why are you rationalizing this? How are you so sure that there really aren't people who simply don't get major distortions to their emotional state, and that there isn't anything wrong with them?

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#189

Post by pmoriarty »

koonsolo wrote: post #184
saiya-jin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you must be one of those few in western society that never touched alcohol, never smoked a cigarette and never consumed sugars! Not that its something to marvel at, but for sure you are a curiosity, just like your kids will be in society. On a more serious note, some drugs do much more good than harm. Some psychedelics have extremely good results when treating hard psychiatric patients with conditions our modern…

I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me. I'm 43 and never had a cigarette in my mouth, and very happy that I don't have to sit in that disgusting smell in cafes anymore. Do I drink alcohol? Yes. Would I mind if my kids don't drink alcohol? No. I saw alcohol destroy families. And your statement that somehow I and my kids would be curiosities in society just beca…

"I' not a psychiatric patient, and neither are my kids, so I don't see what drugs could do for me."

Check out "Jack Herer's First Time High"[1]. (If you're curious, there are more details in the first 12 minutes of this bio on him:[2])

Also see what MDMA did for a man with Aspergers: [3]

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwedCQtW7s

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDRP7rv8ZXc

[3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#190

Post by bheadmaster »

soco wrote: post #186
bheadmaster wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences. I sincerely doubt that there are scientists questioning whether clockwork elves are real or not. Hallucinations are considered hallucinations because they are seen only by the person who ingested the hallucinogens, and none of the other people who might be present but didn't ingest the hallucinogens. Consistence is crucial to the v…

By that definition a recurring dream would be reality - consistence it has, no hallucinogens involved.

> By that definition a recurring dream would be reality

And indeed, if I had a dream recurring with 100% regularity and consistency, I'd be very freaked out and question which reality is reality :)

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