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How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

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Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#131

Post by pmoriarty »

Trasmatta wrote: post #56
IIAOPSW wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience here, in fact I'm sure its all accurate, but I must make the curious observation that I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. Time is skewed, vision gets geometric patterns, stream of consciousness becomes more of an unnavigable white water rapids of consci…

> Perhaps a normal person would be scared seeing a friends face morph into a demonic figure, but I just find myself asking "why his face and not everyone's face?" and then proceed to systematically look at faces for what feels like hours On some drugs, dosages, and settings, you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is. All I knew was pain, suffering, torment, spinning, and eternity.

"you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is"

Not only that, it's not uncommon to forget that you've even taken anything, and these experiences are often felt as "more real than real".

This is why it's important to do to have an experienced person you like and trust there with you. They can remind you that you are under the influence, comfort you if you need it, and keep you safe.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#132

Post by tempestn »

Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

After experiencing a subjective "literal eternity of hell" once, why did you do it again?

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#133

Post by boppo1 »

koonsolo wrote: post #120

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

This shouldn't be so downvoted. I've taken a variety of psychedelics, and net effect on my life was never more than an entertaining and/or blissful and/or frightening hallucination. They certainly felt profound, even months or years after, but if I really look at my life, they amount to nothing more than an anecdote.

I know plenty of people who take/took them very seriously. None of them are particularly wise, although quite a few believe they are and will try to convince you of their profundity. But it usually boils down to banal platitudes and "psychedelic gibberish".

I know old people who have run businesses, fought fires and been through wars and poverty. They possess wisdom that is meaningful and actionable.

None of these drug-taking people have gone on to really make a meaningful impact in the human realm compared to the people I know who were focused on diligent hard work. Those people became doctors, engineers, musicians or artists. The psychedelic takers often partake in art, but it's always the same derivative alex grey type stuff.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#134

Post by pmoriarty »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #51
Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

I'm not trying to dismiss your experience here, in fact I'm sure its all accurate, but I must make the curious observation that I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. Time is skewed, vision gets geometric patterns, stream of consciousness becomes more of an unnavigable white water rapids of consci…

"I don't seem to get the distortion of emotional state so many others seem to have on psychedelics (be it positive or negative). I get all the other distortions. ... I inevitably start trying to figure out how it works, and the whole trip turns into scientific self experimentation."

This sounds like a defense mechanism on a dose low enough that your mind can still defend itself like that. It's possible to take such a strong dose of psychedelics that they blow through any such defense mechanisms.

Unfortunately, such doses sometimes lead to amnesia afterwards, as the mind may still try to defend itself from even the memory of it.

This is yet another reason to do this under the guidance of a trained therapist, who can prepare you for the experience, help you to engage with the experience instead of trying to talk yourself out of it, and help you integrate it afterwards.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#135

Post by lmarcos »

devwastaken wrote: post #106
vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

The mind is the source of all senses. Is an Ayahuasca trip hallucination any different in reality than say schizophrenia hallucinations? If there truly are beings of other advanced "planes", and they are communicating, why are they only doing it in vague ways that mimic dreams? And why is that information never something novel? If they're beings more advanced than us then we should be able to ask and get answers. Sam…

> why are they only doing it in vague ways that mimic dreams? And why is that information never something novel?

I would say: why not? I've never done Ayahuasca or taken drugs to hallucinate, so I have no idea about what people experience, but if what they experience is not only a product of their mind, why would we be so surprised of the hidden structure of the universe (if any)? We literally know very little about everything, so "our way" is probably not the "only way".

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#136

Post by BatteryMountain »

Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

And the problem with these Eternity in Hell experiences, is that it can permanently traumatize you and embed (new) triggers for things like anxiety/panic attacks and other stress disorders. It can feel truly real, truly horrifying, in a place where time don't exist, where you don't know words or language. That kind of experience can change a person, and not always in a good way.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#137

Post by BatteryMountain »

Encrust6221 wrote: post #29
Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

I took mushrooms three years ago and immediately gained a pervasive baseline anxiety in my life. Haven't been able to shake it since. Wouldn't recommend if you have any issues with anxiety in your life beforehand.

Mine went away in about 1.5 years. Going from a normal person with no worries in the world, to a person having a panic meltdown while shopping for food or driving is not something I wish on anyone. It's hard to verbalize/articulate the experience.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#138

Post by comfypotato »

This article doesn’t give the relevant attention to risks of more serious, long term, psychiatric conditions. Responsible use is key. DMT and other common psychedelics have been linked to emerging schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. [1]. The link is particularly strong when “large-dose trips” are taken in quick succession or generally without weeks/months in between.

I personally broke my brain with irresponsible use of psychedelics. Fortunately modern medication enables me to live a normal life, but I can’t help but feel that this study should be mentioning these risks. It’s important to understand responsible patterns of use: mostly spacing out your large-dose trips with 3 months in between each. A history of these mental illnesses in your family is also a strong indication to stay away from these drugs (psychedelics).

1. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0269881115596156

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#139

Post by boppo1 »

nikisweeting wrote: post #124
xs83 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vomited so hard that I gave myself 2 black eyes and burst a blood vessel in my eye so it went completely red. I literally thought I was going to spew up a kidney. Its called La Purga for a reason though, prior to vomiting, because you are starting to trip, you get into a negative thought spiral, this builds and builds and you feel vile. Then all of a sudden - blam. Kidney coming through your nose level spew.... alo…

I have the same approach. I think given how many smart, rational people I know say there is something to purging I'm inclined to try it once, but once I have that experience I think I'm likely to revert to thinking it's stockholm syndrome for long-term exploration / future trips.

I have not taken ayahuasca, but have vomited on acid. I believe your latter conclusion is correct. Psychedelics are overrated by those who take them.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#140

Post by actionfromafar »

koonsolo wrote: post #120

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

I'll never encourage it, but I have to admit I see DMT and such different from stimulants and weed. From what I've heard is that stimulants and weed are often associated with prolonged use, while DMT (and friends, I don't know much about this) often are used once or a handful of times and give lasting benefits.
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