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India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

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Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#71

Post by dahfizz »

crote wrote: post #51
constantcrying wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is disingenous to compare USB-C to power plugs. USB-C does a million more things than power delivery and there is significantly more room for innovation. > Nobody prevents any manufacturer to add additional charging ports. Except for market demands of smaller phones. My question to you is: would you have wanted micro-USB to be standardized like this?

Micro-USB was standardized like this. And the law included a clause that said it had to be reviewed regularly to keep up with industry progress - which is why it is now switching to USB-C.

This is wrong. The EU issued an MoU and a charging standard which was voluntary. It was nothing more than them asking nicely to please use Micro-B.

This is a law. It's completely different.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#72

Post by crote »

DarthNebo wrote: post #7

The sad part is that governments want standards but won't fund SIGs or FOSS projects which their digital infra runs on....

You mean like the EU-FOSSA program, or its recent continuation?

The EU has been funding bug bounty programs since 2014, has organized hackathons, and is explicitly promoting the use of open standards and open source software.

Sure, the funding isn't massive, but it's still a few million a year.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#74

Post by ThatPlayer »

philliphaydon wrote: post #31

I wonder if other companies will follow Apple in crippling USB-C. https://www.xda-developers.com/iphone-15-models-different-us...

I believe that's more an issue with the SoC not supporting USB 3. If the iPhone 15 base models re-use the same SoC as the iPhone 14 Pro (like the base iPhone 14s do), then those SoCs were probably never developed to support USB 3 in the first place.

They've previously used external USB 3 host controllers to support USB 3 host, but not client. I believe the iPad Mini 6, and the iPad Air 4 both do this: https://unitedlex.com/insights/apple-ipad-2020-teardown-anal... . So while the product specs will say USB 3.1 and that is technically true, it'll only be for USB devices, not for a connection to a computer: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-mini-6-is-still-us... . Adding that USB 3 host in an iPhone would be a bit pointless: I doubt anyone is going to hook up a USB drive to their phone.

Funny enough I had this idea because the Raspberry Pi 4 does the same thing: SoC that only supports a USB 2.0 client while using an external USB 3.0 host controller.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#75

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

ho_schi wrote: post #26
londons_explore wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real solution is to not legislate a standard, but instead to say: "A 10% additional tax shall apply to the sale of any portable device. The tax will be reduced to zero if the device uses the most common charging port in the year the device was sold. The tax is reduced to 5% if it uses the 2nd most common port in the year it was sold." That means any big industry effort to move to a new port will, when it gets mor…

Yes and no. This is a short/mid-term directive and as well a power-plug standard. Which is common across the world for decades. We all happily live with that already. Anyway, your basic idea is leading in a good direction and shall cover all important features: * Replacement parts for 5 (smartphone), 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30 (plane) years * Open specification for replacement parts (manufacturer goes out of business, thir…

And this is why they don't let tech people write laws...

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#76

Post by crote »

mlindner wrote: post #64
crote wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU law explicitly includes a provision that it must be reviewed every few years to keep up with industry progress. It previously mandated Micro USB, and now it mandates USB-C. It's not a law which says "the industry must use connector X", but a law which says "the industry must standardize on a single connector" - which is exactly what you seem to be asking for.

"Industry progress" doesn't happen if companies are banned from selling new devices with new standards.

Selling devices with both connectors is allowed.

Besides that, there are plenty of industry standards developed well before the first devices come on the market. PCIe 6 was finished before the first PCIe 5 product even hit the shelves, DDR5 was done two years before the first CPU used it, and I bet someone is working on a USB 5 already.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#77

Post by ThatPlayer »

wongarsu wrote: post #46
philliphaydon wrote: post #31

I wonder if other companies will follow Apple in crippling USB-C. https://www.xda-developers.com/iphone-15-models-different-us...

It's apparently still par for the course in cheaper laptops, like having USB-C ports without Thunderbolt or without Display Port alt mode. I'm more surprised Apple didn't just remove the connector from the cheaper models, claiming inductive charging and bluetooth are all anyone needs.

Last I checked even Google's Pixel phones will not support DisplayPort alt-modes. Probably to sell you Chromecasts.

Though some research now seems to suggest it supports DisplayLink over USB.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#78

Post by weberer »

rozenmd wrote: post #47

I feel like EU and India are missing the obvious here - Apple will just remove the ability to charge via cable, and create even more e-waste and waste energy.

All iPhones today already support wireless charging, so it won't be that big of a jump.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#79

Post by dartharva »

londons_explore wrote: post #11
andybak wrote: post #8

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

The real solution is to not legislate a standard, but instead to say: "A 10% additional tax shall apply to the sale of any portable device. The tax will be reduced to zero if the device uses the most common charging port in the year the device was sold. The tax is reduced to 5% if it uses the 2nd most common port in the year it was sold." That means any big industry effort to move to a new port will, when it gets mor…

Apple in India is a luxury brand, increasing prices with additional taxes won't make any significant change in their sales numbers. The main concern here was avoiding more e-waste and allowing more consumer freedom.

Re: India follows EU's example in requiring USB-C charging for smart devices

#80

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pretext-1 wrote: post #35
andybak wrote: post #8

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

The law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum. The goal of the law is to ensure standardization of connectors is happening, not to enforce USB-C forever. If "no laws" would be the solution, Apple would have switched to USB-C already. Unfortunately they didn't, proving the law was necessary.

> law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum

Nobody is going to put two ports on a phome. Required minimum is the legislated maximum for physical interfaces.

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