government has gone way too far ... kids need the freedom and independence of exploring their neighborhood and surroundings ... when I was that age all the kids in town would travel as a pack sometimes riding our bikes 10 miles to the next village with our dogs running at our sides ... I do not buy the Oh restrict to save them mentality ... when gov imposes what has happened here it kills the future of our kids
Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#722As a parent of three young adult kids, all I can say is WTF.
My kids were allowed to walk, scooter, and tricycle around our block from the time they were five years old. They were allowed to walk into town, as long as they were with at least one friend, from the time they were eight.
From sixteen up, as long as they were with a group of at least three, they could take the train into NYC.
When my son was sixteen, we put him on a bus with one friend (also sixteen), for a five hour bus ride to Boston so he could go visit his sister at college, and so his friend could visit her sister at college.
And this mom got arrested because he kid walked a half mile on sidewalks to get home?
In our town, there are no busses for the middle school, the kids walk, some of them over a half mile, every school day.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#723Earlier quoted context omitted.
But are judges better? https://www.yahoo.com/news/atlanta-judge-chews-lawyer-missed...
I'm not saying they're better, but would you rather just let it end with CPS and not get a hearing? To get a kid taken basically is going to require your consent or the holes lining up in the swiss cheese. I want as many layers in that swiss cheese as possible if the allegations against me are false. Stuff like due process is what our forefathers died to at least ostensibly give us.
The interesting part is that CPS determined there was no abuse in this case. So yes, in this case it would have been better to end with CPS.
Unfortunately, due process is whatever the judge say it is.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#724Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point is exactly that your experience is very unusual
It’s unusual for white people. Every black and Hispanic person I know has stories about how they had to worry about violence while living their lives normally. For example, a friend’s partner shared a story about the time he went to a big conference (maybe the VMware one?) in Atlanta. He was fairly senior at HP and no more threatening looking than any other middle-aged IT guy … and was the only pulled over on the way…
Here's actual data: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cbpp18st.pdf
Table 3, "Residents who experienced nonfatal threats or use of force during contacts with police, by demographic characteristics, 2015 and 2018"
Of people who report having police contact within the last year (~18% of people), 2.0% report "Experienced threats or force at any time during the year". 1.5% for white people, 3.8% for black. This is 2018.
Any way you slice it, having a gun drawn on you by a cop is exceedingly rare--even for black Americans. And, of course, "gun drawn" is going to be a small subset of that 3.8%.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#725Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not saying they're better, but would you rather just let it end with CPS and not get a hearing? To get a kid taken basically is going to require your consent or the holes lining up in the swiss cheese. I want as many layers in that swiss cheese as possible if the allegations against me are false. Stuff like due process is what our forefathers died to at least ostensibly give us.
The interesting part is that CPS determined there was no abuse in this case. So yes, in this case it would have been better to end with CPS. Unfortunately, due process is whatever the judge say it is.
I'm not so sure. It appears the parents capitulated to two weeks of "safety plan" to CPS when there was no abuse at all. I don't see much functional difference between "CPS found no abuse and stopped there" and "CPS found no probable cause of abuse, then brought it to judge who said WTF with the safety plan without probable cause of abuse" other than the latter shut down the whole safety plan BS.
CPS is basically the adversary in the court proceedings so I see the judge more as an additional layer in the swiss cheese rather than a replacement layer in the swiss cheese, which your previous statement seems to allude towards.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#726Earlier quoted context omitted.
The interesting part is that CPS determined there was no abuse in this case. So yes, in this case it would have been better to end with CPS. Unfortunately, due process is whatever the judge say it is.
I'm not so sure. It appears the parents capitulated to two weeks of "safety plan" to CPS when there was no abuse at all. I don't see much functional difference between "CPS found no abuse and stopped there" and "CPS found no probable cause of abuse, then brought it to judge who said WTF with the safety plan without probable cause of abuse" other than the latter shut down the whole safety plan BS. CPS is basically the…
Did you read TFA? Nothing you are saying is matching up with the information. CPS is not the adversary in this case, nor did they bring it to a judge.
The parents agreed to the surveillance plan. Unless they go to a judge for an order mandating it, it's voluntary. It's likely the lawyer recommended they go along with it.
This is like the 5th time you've commented on my stuff while missing major information from the article, or simply going off on some random tangent.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#727Earlier quoted context omitted.
CPS investigated and cleared them and then dropped the case. It's the cops and DA who kept going.
...and really, CPS does need to investigate. Yes, most often it's just a nosey neighbour, but every now and then those nosey neighbours are on to something, and while unpleasant for the families, missing that one case is the horror story they want to avoid.
This is the fork in the road, they need investigatory power, but not punitory power. They should be empowered to investigate the reports but their investigation should simply be evidence. The evidence should be passed into the legal system and treated no different to other evidence… presumption of innocence snd burden of proof should not be abrogated … lest we simply abandon any pretence of jurisprudence on such matters.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#728Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not so sure. It appears the parents capitulated to two weeks of "safety plan" to CPS when there was no abuse at all. I don't see much functional difference between "CPS found no abuse and stopped there" and "CPS found no probable cause of abuse, then brought it to judge who said WTF with the safety plan without probable cause of abuse" other than the latter shut down the whole safety plan BS. CPS is basically the…
Did you read TFA? Nothing you are saying is matching up with the information. CPS is not the adversary in this case, nor did they bring it to a judge. The parents agreed to the surveillance plan. Unless they go to a judge for an order mandating it, it's voluntary. It's likely the lawyer recommended they go along with it. This is like the 5th time you've commented on my stuff while missing major information from the a…
The fact that you characterize someone building an abuse case against you, and interfering with your normal parental rights, as not your "adversary" really makes me question what you have to prove here. Is this an ego thing? Is this why you're trolling right now?
From the beginning I indicated I would force them to go through the court for the "voluntary" agreement. Your snark "but judges are better?" completely bypassed that, seemingly completely missing the request for the order would never even get to the judge if the adversary CPS never pushed for the order in the first place.
> nor did they bring it to a judge.
Which is why I proposed a scenario where they were forced to if they wanted it to happen. I'm well aware many of my opinions were not expressed in the "information" of the article (oh no!).
>This is like the 5th time you've commented on my stuff
If you check this thread, you initially commented to me on this thread. It was your choice to reply to me unsolicited, although your statement here is a nice attempt to try to turn that on its head.
Cheers and have a good day.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#729Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience it is fairly normal in the US, too, which is why stories like this are newsworthy. Also, Reason is a libertarian political rag and they have ideological motivations for sharing this particular story.
Not disagreeing, but I want to point out that every news source is typically biased and has ideological reasons for every story that they push.
True, which is why you should always consider the source along with their probable motivations. When a publication that is openly promoting libertarian philosophy writes a story about abuses by government, it's worth considering that this is probably the most egregious abuse they could find. It's in their best interest to focus our attention on the most convincing evidence.
Most mainstream media isn't overtly political, so their motivations are usually more monetary than ideological. Following the money is always a good idea.
Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile
#730Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kudos to you for bucking the trend and encouraging your kids to do things like spending afternoons romping around outside! Complete anecdata, but the parents in my close friend group are split between "parents with a more free-range kid mindset" and "typical upper-middle-class parental paranoia." The free-range kids are mostly happy-go-lucky, emotionally stable, and thriving. Almost every single kid over the age of 1…
Our society is way too tolerant of that kind of behavior. It's similar to how there are still occasional people wearing masks, even outdoors. It needs to become socially acceptable to tell people they're being paranoid and weird, in the same way they feel it's acceptable to tell others they're not paranoid enough.
Masks are a bit trickier, since some people are severely immunocompromised or have loved ones who are immunocompromised. If you are undergoing chemo, or your parent is on hospice care, it actually makes sense to keep wearing a mask everywhere, and doctors are encouraging this (not just to defend against COVID germs, but all germs).
But as for outside masks, I agree, it's just straight up unscientific. Especially when people are wearing flimsy cloth masks that do little to ward off COVID germs in the first place! Although I know some people keep them on outside if they're walking between buildings, just because it's easier than taking it on/off constantly.
So anyway, masks kind of fall into that category of "I ain't gonna judge if I don't know your exact situation."
But I agree, it would be nice to be able to tell my friends who are perfectly healthy with no at-risk loved ones, hey, you really don't need to keep wearing a mask outside for the rest of your life. Both because it's silly, and because it seems genuinely damaging to their mental health... I have a couple friends who still get anxious/upset when someone gets within 6 feet of them without a mask on, and it's just a needlessly stressful way to live that is taking a very, very serious toll on their mental health.