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Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#641

Post by P_I_Staker »

autoexec wrote: post #572
kelnos wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sort of thinking enables all sorts of abuse, though. Knowing this, a neighbor with a beef with parent-neighbors could cause them a lot of grief by manufacturing a false report to the police or CPS, in such a way that they won't get in trouble themselves. I get that sometimes pro-active measures are prudent, but "hey, police, I saw my neighbor's kid walking outside unattended" is not one of those times. And even…

> I get that sometimes pro-active measures are prudent, but "hey, police, I saw my neighbor's kid walking outside unattended" is not one of those times. It's possible that "I saw a kid walking alone" isn't enough to justify an CPS investigation but "This child's parent was just arrested and is being charged with a felony for endangering this child" is reason enough. At the point CPS got involved, they were investigat…

You are the reason we have a violent oppressive police state (and one that’s racist to boot).

Look at the hoops you’re willing to jump through to apologize for this behavior… the banality of evil.

“Of course it’s reasonable to report a parent because their child went for a stroll. Then the police would have no choice, but to charge her with a felony; laws the law. Then of course CPS must follow procedure; the kids coulda got kidnapped. Let’s solve this by kidnapping them, strip searching them, and putting them in an abusive home.” (the stuff about strip searching was an amalgamation w/the propublica story. Not a part of your story, but not fake.)

Anything is reasonable as long as you follow policy? You were just following orders?

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#642

Post by midoridensha »

patrickserrano wrote: post #374
ch4s3 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its funny, because I see young-ish kids alone or in small groups walking around all the time in Brooklyn. Between 2:30 and 4:00 PM the sidewalks around my apartment are choked with unaccompanied kids.

I live in Manhattan and my wife and I just had our first kid a few weeks ago. We've been talking about it for months now, but we want our kid to have that kind of independence and familiarity with the city. On one hand it's good for their development and on another hand it just seems practical that they be able to navigate the city on their own for safety reasons. I've offended a lot of suburban friends and family th…

>I've offended a lot of suburban friends and family though, ... I've been told that it's irresponsible, that I'll be endangering him, and that I'm crazy to think the city is a safe place for a child, among other things.

Time for some new friends...

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#643

Post by cbsmith »

emodendroket wrote: post #638
cbsmith wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much required, for obvious reasons, for CPS to put mitigations in place for whatever they might be investigating. Mitigations often feel like punishments, for sure, with the key difference that they are only until the investigation is resolved.

Is it though? If that’s necessary why isn’t it necessary to lock someone up while you investigate whether he might be involved in drug dealing, just in case he might be guilty and destroy the evidence?

Wait... I think you've got cause & effect backwards here.

The police arrested the mom, not CPS. There was no interaction between the family and CPS prior to the arrest. The arrest is what brings CPS in to the picture. Just by virtue of arresting a parent, CPS should to get involved, because arresting the parent potentially puts the kids at risk... and then you double down on that because they've been arrested for endangering the kids. CPS then needs to figure out the lay of the land, so that they can establish that the kids are NOT at risk and they can step out of the picture.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#644

Post by P_I_Staker »

pavon wrote: post #11
kurisufag wrote: post #3

>A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless. The cops picked up Aiden on his own block. this is the real problem here. who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood?

There will always be people who overreact and call the police for inappropriate reasons. That isn't the problem. The problem is that the police, and then the DA, chose to make this a criminal matter. Either of them could and should have dismissed the issue after verifying that the child was not being put into a harmful environment.

Part of it is the procedural philosophy on crime that simultaneously makes crimes easy to prosecute, and demands the police act on any letter-of-the-law violation, without thinking.

You can get phony DUIs now too. How many people are on some pharmaceutical? Well if so, you’re automatically guilty, even if your doctors tells you that you can drive, and must take the meds.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#645

Post by rayrey »

Matthias247 wrote: post #609
twiddling wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck I was riding the U-bahn at age 11

I grew up on the countryside. Elementary school was in a different town. I had to walk 500m to the bus station and then take the school bus each day at age 7. At age 11 it was then secondary school, which included a longer walk to a different bus station and taking a public bus instead of a pure school bus.

Yeah that blew me away when I was stationed (GI) in Frankfurt, all the kids riding the trains and streetcars to school.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#646

Post by P_I_Staker »

josefresco wrote: post #33
kurisufag wrote: post #3

>A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless. The cops picked up Aiden on his own block. this is the real problem here. who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood?

My neighbor (not old) threatened to call the police on my 12 year old daughter because she didn't stop for him... to scold her. On the surface he's a reasonable, responsible adult but for some reason was/is triggered by neighborhood kids simply "having fun". People can be strange.

This is very common. We used to get harassed by old farts and security when we lived on a golf course.

One came up to our back door ranting and screaming, and my dad had to tell him to fuck off.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#647

Post by P_I_Staker »

rubyfan wrote: post #37
kurisufag wrote: post #3

>A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless. The cops picked up Aiden on his own block. this is the real problem here. who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood?

It sounds like the cop had the discretion and chose to arrest her after she answered a question negatively. This seems to be another big part of the problem.

She probably “didn’t cooperate”… “she wouldn’t lift her sack and spread her cheeks, so we took her to jail.”

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#648

Post by worthless-trash »

rufflez wrote: post #612
nineplay wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I write software, I know that users will do dumb things and it is my responsibility to write my code in such a way that they can cause no damage. The legal system should have similar responsibilities. If citizens can report crimes, some citizens will incorrectly report non-crimes. If the legal system can't handle that, the that is entirely the fault of the legal system.

That’s part of the problem… everything can’t be reduced to if-then-else; situational awareness, perspective, nuance and understanding are completely missing. In this case, how helpful is it to the child to remove the mother from the child, to teach her a lesson not to remove herself from the child?

More importantly, is making an 8 year old kid a km by themselves in rural America a significant risk ?

I feel like I would have done this 1000 times by the time i was 8 in the rural Australia, is the danger in the US that much larger ?

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#649

Post by nicolas_t »

dredmorbius wrote: post #433

Let's look at the outcome of this case: After two weeks, child services closed Wallace's case, finding the complaint was unfounded. Keep in mind that Reason.com is essentially an anti-government institution, for which such stories, often presented with an extreme slant or selective take on facts, are catnip. HN's own archives will show many instances of similar articles: https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=reason.…

CPS closed the case, the DA didn't so the woman pled guilty to child endangerment and lost her job.

There's a bit more than "After two weeks, child services closed Wallace's case, finding the complaint was unfounded." if you actually read the article to the end.

That said I agree with you that Reason is a bit biased.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#650

Post by giantg2 »

notch656a wrote: post #516
dragonwriter wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They came up with that plan because the grandparents DID live nearby. Yes, these kind of ”no unsupervised time, but children remain with parents” agreements are one alternative that CPS sometimes gives, where what they see as suitable supervisers are available, to putting the children in temporary foster care during an investigation. They are justified in exactly the same cases where what they are an alternative to…

Putting children in a foster home is a higher legal barrier than a voluntary "Safety plan." Phrasing this as alternative is disingenuous. It's safe to assume if that legal barrier was actually met they would have put them in a foster home as staying with the parents would be too unsafe. The parents got bluffed by tyrants. Personally I would never open the door to, nor sign any document, nor speak with CPS outside of…

But are judges better?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/atlanta-judge-chews-lawyer-missed...

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