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Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#601

Post by renewiltord »

CodeMage wrote: post #279
willcipriano wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play the same game. "I was concerned this woman was talking to my son, I couldn't hear her but the conversation seemed to be something about how she wanted him to come over to her house and how handsome he is, and then when I came into her eyeline she suddenly started ranting about helmets and CPS. I'm really confused about the whole thing officer, I assume she is just elderly but can you ask her to not talk to my so…

I'm sorry, are we honestly entertaining this idea? I try to write measured, patient replies on this site, but holy crap, it's hard sometimes. Think about what you're proposing. You want me to drag my son, a kid who was little enough back then to still ride a bike with training wheels, into a tense argument between a weird lady, some scary-looking adults, and his parents who suddenly decided to lie through their teeth…

I want to be dead honest with you: The Internet is full of "I would have said X" situations where everyone acts like X is this big gotcha. It will make you outraged, but these people are all paper tigers. Drop the argument. Walk away. Your life will be better for it. Their advice is worth nothing.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#602

Post by swat535 »

tensor wrote: post #125

As a Canadian this is like a story from some 3rd world country. I remember frequently walking to school that distance as a kid. It wasn't abnormal nor dangerous. That it would be "illegal" is some crazy stuff.

I was born and raised in a 3rd world country, this doesn't happen over there. Kids are pretty independent from a young age and learn to take the public transport at like 7 by themselves..

From what I can gather, Europeans doesn't have this issue either.. This kind of insanity is only an American problem AFAIK.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#603

Post by metadat »

Mandatum wrote: post #600
felixfurtak wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids, ages 8 and 6 walk 2 km home from school on their own. New Zealand, largest city. It's definitely fairly normal here. It's hard to fathom that this could be considered illegal.

Do you do a school walking train? If not, be careful. Under 14 unsupervised, even walking home, is illegal. Some parents have started reporting this to schools in AKL and WEL.

This sounds insane.

What fun is it being a kid if you can't explore? That was the only really good part, otherwise childhood and adolescence is mostly suffering.

Wasted youth.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#604

Post by cbsmith »

nasmorn wrote: post #361
cbsmith wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and really, CPS does need to investigate. Yes, most often it's just a nosey neighbour, but every now and then those nosey neighbours are on to something, and while unpleasant for the families, missing that one case is the horror story they want to avoid.

Depends on what was reported but if the report said child walked alone on the sidewalk the really do not need to investigate. That is my daughters regular activity when they go to school and come back. If someone reports me as having had dinner, why does the police need to come to my house? Where is the potential crime?

My point was about CPS's investigation, not the police response. Given that the police arrested their mom, you want CPS involved, and if they're involved, they ought to do some degree of investigation, if for no other reason than so they can STOP being involved.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#605

Post by twiddling »

Matthias247 wrote: post #534
ddalex wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland ? One of the places that is somewhat normal...

Also normal in germany. At least for elementary school (which is after kindergarden). My guess would be that it's normal in other european countries.

Heck I was riding the U-bahn at age 11

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#606

Post by cbsmith »

dragonwriter wrote: post #353
cbsmith wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and really, CPS does need to investigate. Yes, most often it's just a nosey neighbour, but every now and then those nosey neighbours are on to something, and while unpleasant for the families, missing that one case is the horror story they want to avoid.

> ...and really, CPS does need to investigate. Why does CPS need to restrict parental rights while investigating a report which even if confirmed as true (as it was in this case) does not violate family law and warrant further action. This would be like saying that, had the law which addressed the family law aspects also (as it should have) made the same changes to criminal law, the police should still have arrested…

> Why does CPS need to restrict parental rights while investigating a report which even if confirmed as true (as it was in this case) does not violate family law and warrant further action.

So, the police arrested the mom, which means you've got a case where the mom has at least been accused of violating the law. Even if mom has not done a single thing wrong, given that she's been arrested & taken from the home, CPS has to get involved just to make sure the kids are okay. It follows that some degree of investigation is done.

I guess you can characterize it as "restrict parental rights", but really all they were doing was insisting that there be someone else in the home with the kids at all times. That does still seem like a bit much, I agree, but I don't see that as a restriction on parental rights. Let's say that it is then, I don't think it's unreasonable that someone who has been arrested specifically on charges of child abuse/endangerment might have their rights curtailed at least until such time as someone can feel like the kids are okay.

> This would be like saying that, had the law which addressed the family law aspects also (as it should have) made the same changes to criminal law, the police should still have arrested her, even when their information was only of an act that would be a non-crime if true.

It's very clear that they interpreted her own statement as meaning she did not perceive how she was endangering her children. I think that's a terrible assessment of the situation, as by their own admission, the kid was NOT in serious danger, but given that assessment, yeah, they should arrest her.

In the end, you do end up empowering people to exercise good judgement, and when they get it wrong, there will be terrible consequences.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#607

Post by metadat »

xrikcus wrote: post #265
rlkf wrote: post #25

In my twice-the-size European city, kids walk twice that distance to school and back home again, alone. Every. Single. Day. If this place isn't safe enough for kids to walk by themselves, maybe the question should be raised whether the police and municipal government really is doing their job the way they're supposed to.

To be fair, here in Menlo Park, CA, children of this age bike or walk half a mile to school all the time as well. It's not very different from when I lived in the London suburbs and walked myself 30 years ago. This isn't really a US/Europe split.

Seconded, I'm also in MP and kids 6 years old and up play out in the street to their heart's content.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#608

Post by Mandatum »

metadat wrote: post #603
Mandatum wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you do a school walking train? If not, be careful. Under 14 unsupervised, even walking home, is illegal. Some parents have started reporting this to schools in AKL and WEL.

This sounds insane. What fun is it being a kid if you can't explore? That was the only really good part, otherwise childhood and adolescence is mostly suffering. Wasted youth.

They only legislated this in the 80's directly after the US serial killer craze started. Golden State Killer, Son of Sam, Hillside Stranglers, Ted Bundy, etc.

Richard Ramirez became popular a few years after the law was enforced, and at that point it solidified for everyone "this was the right decision".

Many parents in the 90's let their kids walk home alone, and explore their neighbourhoods on their own.. And even today it's popular in rural areas. But the nature of where people live now is more related to cost of living and jobs, which everyone changes every few years - so nobody knows their neighbours or their community.

Now it's normal to shame parents who do this. And schools automatically notify the authorities if they're told about it.

Would kids get taken away from parents for this? Unlikely, legislation only pushes a $2,000 fine.

Yes, kids have been abducted in New Zealand. Yes, kids have been assaulted in New Zealand. It is a possibility.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#609

Post by Matthias247 »

twiddling wrote: post #605
Matthias247 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also normal in germany. At least for elementary school (which is after kindergarden). My guess would be that it's normal in other european countries.

Heck I was riding the U-bahn at age 11

I grew up on the countryside. Elementary school was in a different town. I had to walk 500m to the bus station and then take the school bus each day at age 7. At age 11 it was then secondary school, which included a longer walk to a different bus station and taking a public bus instead of a pure school bus.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#610

Post by cbsmith »

emodendroket wrote: post #381
cbsmith wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and really, CPS does need to investigate. Yes, most often it's just a nosey neighbour, but every now and then those nosey neighbours are on to something, and while unpleasant for the families, missing that one case is the horror story they want to avoid.

Investigating is one thing but it seems that they also punished them before starting their investigation.

It's pretty much required, for obvious reasons, for CPS to put mitigations in place for whatever they might be investigating. Mitigations often feel like punishments, for sure, with the key difference that they are only until the investigation is resolved.
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