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Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

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Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#41

Post by marricks »

Pretty great thing to read coming back from a tempo run! I just go into it this year, and I'd like to say, it's more fun than I thought. Every aspect.

If you get a heart rate monitor and dive into what you're doing even difficult high intensity runs are enjoyable. It's all about expectations and if you go into it thinking

- "I'm going to run at 75% of my max heart rate" you know you're going to be winded, but at the end feel great

- "I'm going on an easy run 60% of max heart rate" you know you'll be able to have a nice conversation along the way and get some good thinking in

etc etc, it's great. Don't start with a heart rate monitor but after a few months it adds a lot of fun for those who like geeking out on numbers and planning.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#42

Post by loceng »

canucker2016 wrote: post #31
Markoff wrote: post #10

Wouldn't be much easier just restrict sugar/glucose consumption, so you don't need to burn it by exercise? I feel this is trying to solve consequences instead of the cause, if I read the article correctly.

Yes. That's why keto is used by some cancer patients. Not all cancers are glucose-sensitive though. See the Warburg effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology)

Also, water-only fasting.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#43

Post by psychphysic »

idlewords wrote: post #29
frereubu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this bait-and-switch so much that my brain often appends "in mice" automatically. But this study looks at cancer in both humans and mice.

There's an entire Twitter devoted to this, https://twitter.com/justsaysinmice From what I understand after reading the article, it reports three things: * big fancy result in mice * measurements of biochemical changes due to exercise in a few humans * self-reported questionnaire from a population of ~3000 tracked over 20 years, some of whom got cancer

Yeah, this stuff has always felt like the least interesting part of science.

Guessing at mechanisms for stuff we already know.

We know exercise is good for you, we know it reduces the risk of cancer and death from cancer.

Let's throw a dart at a board full of its good-sounding effects and all nod our heads at the idea it probably contributes.

My eyes glazed over but they seemingly only found a result in high Vs low metastatic activity? Not even metastatic Vs not metastatic.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#44

Post by idlewords »

pimterry wrote: post #34
idlewords wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chief result being reported here is in the mouse model, it's not 100-some people filling out a questionnaire that got them on the cover of the journal.

Is that true? The headline here comes straight from the human study. From the article: > The human data, obtained from an epidemiological study that monitored 3,000 individuals for about 20 years, indicated 72% less metastatic cancer in participants who reported regular aerobic activity at high intensity, compared to those who did not engage in physical exercise.

That figure comes from examining 148 people in that cohort who got cancer. The authors don't state what proportion of that number is metastatic cancer. They also state:

"As our focus was on the relationship between exercise and cancer, we used a propensity score of multinomial logistic regression to control for key variables in the diet assessed using a validated questionnaire."

So the 73% figure is drawn from a small number of cases that were significantly weighted. I'd be interested to hear what people who know this field think about this result separate from the mouse/human exercise stuff.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#45

Post by imnotlost »

imnotlost wrote: post #6
zagrebian wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a daily 7-minute workout enough? I perform it at a very high intensity (40 jumping jacks, 16 push ups). https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/0...

For 80-85% of maximum pulse rate... If your lungs are burning and you're about to collapse after 30 seconds of activity the intensity is about right. Do 30 seconds high intensity, then 90 seconds low intensity (don't sit down or stand still), repeat 8 times. Rowing and sprinting works really well.

Don't think about actual pulse numbers and % of pulse numbers. If you're not thinking about quitting and almost falling off the rower you're not going hard enough.

You will think of every excuse known to man to avoid doing it.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#46

Post by nradov »

canucker2016 wrote: post #38

This method is attacking the Warburg effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology) and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26778478/ Some cancers are glucose-sensitive which use glucose to grow. Some cancer patients go on a keto diet instead of/as well as aerobic activity (a keto diet is probably better tolerated than lots of aerobic activity for many cancer patients). from https://www.sciencedaily.com…

Low carbohydrate diets may be a good option to improve general health for many people, however they haven't generally proven effective as cancer treatments. The clinical trials have been disappointing.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#47

Post by rollo »

imnotlost wrote: post #6
zagrebian wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a daily 7-minute workout enough? I perform it at a very high intensity (40 jumping jacks, 16 push ups). https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/0...

For 80-85% of maximum pulse rate... If your lungs are burning and you're about to collapse after 30 seconds of activity the intensity is about right. Do 30 seconds high intensity, then 90 seconds low intensity (don't sit down or stand still), repeat 8 times. Rowing and sprinting works really well.

That doesn't sound right. Even 95% of max heart rate is sustainable for a long, long time. Intervals one can only sustain for 30s are way above VO2max intensity deep in the anaerobic zone. Heart rate pretty much maxes out on those.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#48

Post by kritiko »

marricks wrote: post #41

Pretty great thing to read coming back from a tempo run! I just go into it this year, and I'd like to say, it's more fun than I thought. Every aspect. If you get a heart rate monitor and dive into what you're doing even difficult high intensity runs are enjoyable. It's all about expectations and if you go into it thinking - "I'm going to run at 75% of my max heart rate" you know you're going to be winded, but at the…

Have you actually tested your max heart rate? I work out with a HRM for Zone 2, but I'm just going off of Polar's zones.

From what I understand going more in depth requires either maxing out your HR (Steve House describes how you can do this in Training for the New Alpinism - basically sprinting uphill until you collapse, seems really unpleasant) or doing lactate testing in a lab.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#49

Post by boc »

If anyone is looking for an easy way to get their heart rate up to max + exert themselves at max effort without doing anything too crazy, I highly recommend a C2 rowing machine. Set the program to a 5K (or 2K) and do the first half as a warmup, then go all-out for the second half. You'll easily hit your max heart rate and can try to sustain it for a minute.

Doing this only takes 10-20 minutes depending on the length of your warmup, and you'll be working your entire body + cardio + lungs. Just make sure you are using correct form - start slow before going all out.

I run and road bike, but rowing is easily the most efficient way to get into that HR zone quickly. You can do sprints but that's pretty hard on your legs if you aren't an active athlete. Rowing is low impact by comparison.

Re: Aerobic exercise can reduce the risk of metastatic cancer in mice: study

#50

Post by canucker2016 »

nradov wrote: post #46
canucker2016 wrote: post #38

This method is attacking the Warburg effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology) and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26778478/ Some cancers are glucose-sensitive which use glucose to grow. Some cancer patients go on a keto diet instead of/as well as aerobic activity (a keto diet is probably better tolerated than lots of aerobic activity for many cancer patients). from https://www.sciencedaily.com…

Low carbohydrate diets may be a good option to improve general health for many people, however they haven't generally proven effective as cancer treatments. The clinical trials have been disappointing.

That's probably why the article says the reduction of metastatic cancer is only 72% versus 100%.
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